masturbation what's wrong?

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Fede
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Fede » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:50 am

or doesn't, as the case may be....
depend
verb (depend on) 1 be controlled or determined by. 2 rely on.

PHRASES depending on, according to.

ORIGIN Latin dependere ‘hang down’.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:04 pm

"Depends" is a brand name for adults diapers.

Fortunately this thread, while having actually presented some good discussion and information, has come to this.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:21 pm

I got the joke :D

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Fede
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Fede » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 pm

tiltbillings wrote:"Depends" is a brand name for adults diapers.

Fortunately this thread, while having actually presented some good discussion and information, has come to this.
yup, I think we've "found the level"...... :guns:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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kc2dpt
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by kc2dpt » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:05 pm

An analogy occurred to me the other day which I wanted to share.

Consider a person in average health intent on training for, running in, and completing his first marathon. He has never run a marathon before, nor run any distance even comparable. He might ask, "What's wrong with carrying a 50 lb backpack while I run the marathon?" One who knows about such things might answer, "Because it will hinder you. It will make you more unlikely to reach your goal. Wise runners do not recommend carrying a 50lb backpack while running a marathon if one doesn't need to."

Some questions we've seen in this thread...

"So you're saying I shouldn't run with a 50lb backpack?" I wouldn't say should or shouldn't. I would say it isn't recommended.

"Does that mean anyone who runs with a backpack will not reach the goal?" Some will and some won't. Depends on the individual. Whether you will or won't is beyond my ability to tell.

"Does that mean those that run with a backpack aren't properly called 'runners'?" They are runners. They might be unwise runners, they might be non-serious runners, they might be deluded runners... but they are runners.

Just wanted to share this as I think it makes my view of the OP's question clearer and thought it might prove useful to some of you.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:14 am

Greetings Peter,

Yes - an interesting way of looking at it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:44 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Peter,

Yes - an interesting way of looking at it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
The question is: is it a 50lbs back pack?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by BlackBird » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:36 am

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Peter,

Yes - an interesting way of looking at it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
The question is: is it a 50lbs back pack?
Are you seriously still trying to argue this?
Or is this another joke that I have failed to grasp.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:36 am

Is not humor a way of making a serious point?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:51 am

BlackBird wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Peter,

Yes - an interesting way of looking at it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
The question is: is it a 50lbs back pack?
Are you seriously still trying to argue this?
Or is this another joke that I have failed to grasp.

metta
Jack
To expand on this a bit. We all carry baggage as we move forward. How much "weight" are we going to give to self-pleasuring in the overall scheme of things?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Jechbi » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:21 pm

How much "weight" are we going to give to [insert behavior here] in the overall scheme of things?
That question could be used to rationalize any number of behaviors.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Prasadachitta » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Jechbi wrote:
How much "weight" are we going to give to [insert behavior here] in the overall scheme of things?
That question could be used to rationalize any number of behaviors.
How is it that we rationalize the perpetuation of that which is not conducive to awakening? This is a very good question. In my opinion the act of rationalizing is often more binding than the acts being rationalized. Masturbation tends to sap one of the will to be caring and outgoing and it reinforces the burning desire to pursue sexual activity as a means of deriving physical pleasure. If we pay attention and see how unhelpful this is, we will not only begin to become disenchanted with this activity but we will also begin to see other more positive and inspiring possibilities on our horizon. There is no need for rationalization. On the other hand I think there is minimal value in abstinence without a consistent and open inquiry into its value. This is because I think the energy which one uses to avoid an activity which they feel compelled to do often negates the energy saved by avoiding it.

Take care all


Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by DNS » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:33 pm

Peter wrote: Consider a person in average health intent on training for, running in, and completing his first marathon. He has never run a marathon before, nor run any distance even comparable. He might ask, "What's wrong with carrying a 50 lb backpack while I run the marathon?" One who knows about such things might answer, "Because it will hinder you. It will make you more unlikely to reach your goal. Wise runners do not recommend carrying a 50lb backpack while running a marathon if one doesn't need to."
That's a pretty good analogy. I like sports analogies and that makes some sense. Running with the weight can still get you to the goal (finish line), but will definitely slow you down.

In the same way, many Buddhists refer to the monastic life as the "short path" and the lay life as the "long path." Both will still get you to the other shore, but one might be shorter. As lay people we are carrying around baggage and weights. How much each weight is? That would depend on the type of activity and the intention.

Instead of a weight, we could count some things as a complete block or brick wall, stopping you in your tracks, such as killing, stealing, etc. But sexual behavior which is not misconduct, could be seen as the extra weights in this analogy, not a brick wall.

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by BlackBird » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:43 pm

TheDhamma wrote: That's a pretty good analogy. I like sports analogies and that makes some sense. Running with the weight can still get you to the goal (finish line), but will definitely slow you down.

In the same way, many Buddhists refer to the monastic life as the "short path" and the lay life as the "long path." Both will still get you to the other shore, but one might be shorter. As lay people we are carrying around baggage and weights. How much each weight is? That would depend on the type of activity and the intention.

Instead of a weight, we could count some things as a complete block or brick wall, stopping you in your tracks, such as killing, stealing, etc. But sexual behavior which is not misconduct, could be seen as the extra weights in this analogy, not a brick wall.
This sums up my feelings well Tilt.
Generally it's not misconduct, it's not something anyone should feel guilty about doing. But whether masturbation weighs in at 50lbs or 5lbs, it stills weighs one down. It is something to be abandoned, in the end.

:anjali:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:58 pm

Jechbi wrote:
How much "weight" are we going to give to [insert behavior here] in the overall scheme of things?
That question could be used to rationalize any number of behaviors.
No less than the original metaphor, which is obviously stacked in favor of a particular point of view. Why 50 lbs in the back pack? Why not 3.75 lbs? Or 84.13 lbs? Is not the metaphorical weight that the person carries in his or her metaphorical backpack going to depend upon any number of factors?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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