HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

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Ben
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ben »

Hi Drolma
There is nothing to apologise for!
Perhaps I was the one in error. My wife tells me that I, without meaning to, can be extremely direct to the point of rudeness. I'm thinking you may have interpreted my directness as being offended? At no point was I offended by anything you said.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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genkaku
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by genkaku »

Ben -- Can I call you The Rude Dude from Tasmania? It has a nice ring to it. :tongue:
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Ben
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ben »

Dear Adam,
genkaku wrote:Ben -- Can I call you The Rude Dude from Tasmania? It has a nice ring to it. :tongue:
Mate, you don't have to ask! Go ahead! Perhaps it should go in my signature.
Cheers

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Ben wrote:Hi Drolma
There is nothing to apologise for!
Perhaps I was the one in error. My wife tells me that I, without meaning to, can be extremely direct to the point of rudeness. I'm thinking you may have interpreted my directness as being offended? At no point was I offended by anything you said.
Metta

Ben
Dear Ben,

Goodness no, it's not you! Me and my big mouth, I wish I had PMed you with my curiosity about the cost.

Reading back, what I wrote doesn't sit quite right with me. It's not that I don't know the general cost of various activities in TB. It's more that I was sort of astonished when I put two and two together and realized I had received my tickets without having given a dime at this point. But it just sort of reads badly, my questions.

One time I had this neat opportunity. A group of monks and lamas came to stay at my house for a week, and I planned and carried out all of their events. I even got to choose what they did, like what teachings, what blessings/wangs (if any), etc. This was my first time doing anything like this, and it was quite a lot of work! But I was astonished at the cost of some of the venues. Just to rent for a few hours, nearly everyone I called asked for what I thought was a ridiculous amount just to rent out some space for a little while. Finally I stumbled upon a church, I think it was Uniterian Church. All they asked for was 10% of the profits which I believe is like tithing. The monks were so happy with me, and I was happy too!

But the cost of advertising for the events was a lot too, when I took out a small add. Aside from that I got them some press at no cost. They're Tibetan refugees who were touring to raise money for a hospital in India for refugees. I got the channel 11 news out to interview them, got them in the local papers, etc. talking about the situation in Tibet. After they were on TV the turnout for the dharma events was a lot better and we received a lot more donations. Those who came to the events and didn't donate were welcomed in anyhow, and some people were very generous in what they gave.

All in all I was so grateful for the experience. And it was a wonderful time having the monks and lamas live in my house for a week. But I know all the cost that went into the events, (and how much more it could have been if I hadn't worked so hard to find something nearly free) and they really relied upon people's generosity in their travels. Of course I handled all the money stuff for them in terms of receiving the funds from people and paying the church for their hospitality. They've been doing this tour in the US for about ten years, and when people don't host them they camp.

So what I mean to say is that I know first hand-the cost involved with much lesser-known monks who are providing teachings or doing sand mandalas or giving blessings or empowerments. The costs involved for HHDL to travel and teach must be more than I can imagine! So what are the chances that my very broke self would have the HHDL coming right to where I live, and that I would be asked to give whatever I can? It's just so auspicious and I feel really grateful. And on top of it, it's at a dharma center so I imagine the gatherings will be on the smaller side.

So I guess if my posts don't sound negative, we can leave it as is. I just wanted to make sure that I don't sound like I'm criticizing him or his travel companions, or anyone involved with HHDL. Or TB in general. Feedback appreciated! :)

Best wishes,
Drolma
Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aloka
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Aloka »

Hi All,

Perhaps the fault is all mine ?

Just to clarify, my post about costs certainly wasn't meant to be aimed at anyone in particular. It's just that having been involved with offline activites at Tibetan Buddhist centres I know that there are endless 'hidden' expenses and unforseen difficulties in organising travel, venues, and all the other considerations that go with them.

Sometimes people don't realise that - and so I just thought I'd mention it.

No need for worries, friends ! :smile:

Kind wishes,

Dazz

:anjali:
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Thanks a lot Dazzle! Okay, I won't worry so much about having put my foot in my mouth.
We'll leave it as it is, I feel more comfortable now. Thanks! :)

Best,
Drolma
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Ben
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ben »

What an extraordinary opportunity, Drolma! How amazingly meritorious!
Incredible!

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Yeshe
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Yeshe »

Dharma teachings should always be free. The opportunity to make a donation may be communicated.

All the groups I know need to hire rooms and the teacher has to travel to the venue. A fee for this is fine IMHO.

Now, HHDL has the same issues - dharma free, premises and travel still to be funded.

In the case of events where he explicitly teaches dharma, the situation is pretty clear.

But what of the talks which are not billed as Buddhist teachings?

I know that the manager of a venue being approached to take a booking from HHDL probably has dollar signs in his eyes, but again we are faced with the dilemma that HHDL will probably express views which are 'Dharma'. So should there be a fee, other than to cover the basic costs of the events?

On another issue, HHDL will have security costs. He is a prime target for terrorist attacks, as is the Pope and other prominent religious leaders. I attended an NKT Buddhist summer festival recently and noted that all the drain covers were sealed and numbered to prevent (presumably) bomb attacks - these are difficult times.

In summation, Dharma should always be available without a fee. Donations create good karma. Fees for venues, travel and other costs are OK. But I am uncomfortable about the teachings HHDL may give which are not billed as 'Dharma', as I think his view will be that of 'Dharma' and therefore should be free. ;)
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Ben wrote:What an extraordinary opportunity, Drolma! How amazingly meritorious!
Incredible!

Ben
Thank you! I feel amazed too :D
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Cittasanto »

Upasaka wrote:
On another issue, HHDL will have security costs. He is a prime target for terrorist attacks, as is the Pope and other prominent religious leaders. I attended an NKT Buddhist summer festival recently and noted that all the drain covers were sealed and numbered to prevent (presumably) bomb attacks - these are difficult times.
I think you would find there are other reasons for the drains to be numbered, NKT are not exactly going to be a top terrorist target, and are linked to terrorist activity???

but HHDL needs security because he is the exiled head of tibet a political office not because he is a religious figure there are plenty of religious figures who don't get such treatment from governments of the country they visit, who actually foot the bill for the security not the person or venue. EDIT - may be different for different countries but I knoe this is true for some
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Yeshe
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Yeshe »

Manapa wrote:
Upasaka wrote:
On another issue, HHDL will have security costs. He is a prime target for terrorist attacks, as is the Pope and other prominent religious leaders. I attended an NKT Buddhist summer festival recently and noted that all the drain covers were sealed and numbered to prevent (presumably) bomb attacks - these are difficult times.
I think you would find there are other reasons for the drains to be numbered, NKT are not exactly going to be a top terrorist target, and are linked to terrorist activity???

but HHDL needs security because he is the exiled head of tibet a political office not because he is a religious figure there are plenty of religious figures who don't get such treatment from governments of the country they visit, who actually foot the bill for the security not the person or venue. EDIT - may be different for different countries but I knoe this is true for some
To clarify, there's a nasty little outfit called Al Qaeda who might well think that a massive explosion killing the Dalai Lama, or the Pope, would be a wonderful thing to do on the pretext of anti-Islamic practice. I'm unsure of the facts, but wasn't HHDL from an Islamic family background? In the eyes of Al Qaeda, in 'rejecting' Islam and in spreading the Kalachakra Tantra, surely that would make him even more of a target.

As for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, I believe there have been threats against him, and he also takes appropriate precautions. Sealing and checking previously-inspected drains is standard security practice I've seen elsewhere. I do not think that within Tibet or within the exiled Tibetan community, there is yet a separation of political and religious life, albeit the roles of the community leaders may indicate such a separation. It only needs the risk of one nutter to believe in killing in the name of his Tibetan sect for protection to be required.
An assembly of 6,000 NKT Buddhists would also seem a pretty easy target for Al Qaeda, and one sure to cause massive death and lots of publicity.


I think prayers for the safety of the Dalai Lama, and such others who are brave enough to engage in public life, is the least we should do. ;)
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Re: HH Dalai Lama in Australia 1-10 Dec 2009

Post by Cittasanto »

Upasaka wrote:To clarify, there's a nasty little outfit called Al Qaeda who might well think that a massive explosion killing the Dalai Lama, or the Pope, would be a wonderful thing to do on the pretext of anti-Islamic practice. I'm unsure of the facts, but wasn't HHDL from an Islamic family background? In the eyes of Al Qaeda, in 'rejecting' Islam and in spreading the Kalachakra Tantra, surely that would make him even more of a target.

As for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, I believe there have been threats against him, and he also takes appropriate precautions. Sealing and checking previously-inspected drains is standard security practice I've seen elsewhere. I do not think that within Tibet or within the exiled Tibetan community, there is yet a separation of political and religious life, albeit the roles of the community leaders may indicate such a separation. It only needs the risk of one nutter to believe in killing in the name of his Tibetan sect for protection to be required.
An assembly of 6,000 NKT Buddhists would also seem a pretty easy target for Al Qaeda, and one sure to cause massive death and lots of publicity.

I think prayers for the safety of the Dalai Lama, and such others who are brave enough to engage in public life, is the least we should do. ;)
ask if the drains are sealed from below also next time you go! certain groups are known to do this, aswell as organisations for varying reasons from health and safety, to paranoia and I would bet Al Qaeda have other targets in mind than some tibetan group. :focus:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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