Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by m0rl0ck » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:11 pm

daverupa wrote:
Viscid wrote:I'm planning to do Ayahuasca this September...
Come for the sensory chaos, stay for the increased gastrointestinal motility?

:tongue:
:rofl:
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

culaavuso
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by culaavuso » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:12 pm

DN 16: Mahāparinibbāna Sutta wrote: In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found.

walkart
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by walkart » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:38 am

Panegalli wrote:
Yes
Thank you for your truthfull answer.
I dont know if you reached any fruit but i supposed to belief peoples and i hope that this experiance will alow you to develop your wholesome qualities and abandon unwholesome.

I dont know if it's possible now, but can you describe what you have experianced ?

:anjali:

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seeker242
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by seeker242 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:08 am

Panegalli wrote:
seeker242 wrote:
Panegalli wrote:I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?
I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

:anjali:
perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.
Perhaps you did! :smile: But that does not necessarily mean it was a good or wise thing to do. For example, if you put all your money on black at the roulette table, and the ball lands on black and you double your money, you could say that was a very useful experience, since you doubled your money! That is a very good outcome! But at the same time, just because you doubled your money does not mean it was good or wise to gamble with all the money to begin with. The end alone does not justify the means. The Buddha taught it's better to make sure the means are skillful and wise. Skillful means have no downside risk, unlike gambling which is inherently risky.

:anjali:

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Crazy cloud » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:44 pm

Panegalli wrote:
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:How do they manifest this?
What leads either you or him to definitely ascertain it is Nibbana?
Unshakeable faith in the buddha, the dhamma and the sangha.
No angry thoughts towards other beings.
No attachment to rites and rituals.
No view of self
Hi, had the same four "fruits" my self, a couple of years ago - no drugs, just a big bite of good old dhukka deluxe :tongue: That state of mind lasted about 6 months, and surely it wasn't nibbana, sorry to say ;) But it made me glued to the eight fold path. Even had some abilities to read minds as well, and where seeing some strange sights, that I still don't understand

Actually I'm happy that the job isn't completly done, because it's kind of fun to strive in this path walking business - what to do when there's no more road ahead?! .. :juggling:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Dan74
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Dan74 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:08 pm

I've seen reports of people after such psychodelic experiences whose orientation becomes much less to do with self and more with serving others and who afterwards commit to a spiritual path. This would be the best outcome.
_/|\_

walkart
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by walkart » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:17 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:and where seeing some strange sights, that I still don't understand
Hello Crazy Cloud,

What kind of sights? If it's possible to explain

:anjali:

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Mkoll
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Mkoll » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:53 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:Hi, had the same four "fruits" my self, a couple of years ago - no drugs, just a big bite of good old dhukka deluxe :tongue:
CC,

What do you mean by a "big bite of good old dhukka deluxe"?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

SamBodhi
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by SamBodhi » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:18 am

I think that it is important to add to this discussion the idea that it is not necessary to take Ayahuasca.

With Metta,
SamBodhi
"An inward-staying
unentangled knowing,
All outward-going knowing
cast aside."
--Upasika Kee Nanayon

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Crazy cloud » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:09 am

Mkoll wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:Hi, had the same four "fruits" my self, a couple of years ago - no drugs, just a big bite of good old dhukka deluxe :tongue:
CC,

What do you mean by a "big bite of good old dhukka deluxe"?
My own expression of the mood when realising that 50 years of trying to run away from my self, ended up in a simple aknowledgment: I'm in Hell, and there's no way out, I give up and refuse to move in any direction - and then a weeklong burning sensation in my whole body, which left me in a nice and clean emtiness

Best regards :)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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manas
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by manas » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:23 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Then you stand isolated.

The 5th precept clearly advises against it.
The fifth precept forbids "strong drinks (& Intoxicants?) that lead to heedlessness". So it isn't that simple, because in this particular case (and so I've read, for quite a few other folks also), the plant ayahuasca did not lead to heedlessness, but rather to a sense of clarity and conviction.

I'm not advocating anyone take it, just saying that the fifth precept does not appear to decisively advise against this particular plant.

Having said that, the Buddha does say that the only way to Nibbana is the practice of the Noble Eightfold Path, so any insights attained while taking ayahuasca ought not to be taken as suggesting one is now enlightened, from the Buddhist point of view in any case.

:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:31 am

The 5th precept doesn't decisively advise against ANY particular plant.

The 5th precept advises .....'to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness'.

Given that some people have experienced the delusion and mistaken impression that they have become enlightened, I would think this precept covers it pretty well.
The only exceptions, as far as I can ascertain, are taking drugs for medical reasons; drugs which have been administered and prescribed, or drugs which bring relief from pain and discomfort.
Other than that, the precept is not specific as to the substance; but it is specific with regard to the EFFECT.

(Oooh, sneaky!! You edited your post.... :jumping: )
Last edited by TheNoBSBuddhist on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Crazy cloud » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:33 am

walkart wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:and where seeing some strange sights, that I still don't understand
Hello Crazy Cloud,

What kind of sights? If it's possible to explain

:anjali:
Hi, actually I guess it's a bit to weird, and possibly something one would ask a monastic ..

But in short:


hightened vision (been able to read without "binoculars", perfect eyesight - use glasses since i was 6 years of age)

automatic pinpointed vision (every morning after waking up - the first object i lay my eyes on, and the mind itself performed a instant and perfect adjustment in clearness, details, colors and so on - emtying the mind, stillness ..)

hightened memory (ability to memorize tree times normal amount)

"read minds" ..

cessation of self - (I could se my old self diappear, day by day - and I couldn't belive what was happening, so I tried several times to lure the demon out in the open, but it was gone, and the dream is over)

seeing 2bodies in every person in a random group of people


Just like to add, that this process lasted about 6 months, and was before I started reading and practicing the dhamma - I was in a state of emty awareness, that's it I think .. :)

Be happy :candle:
Last edited by Crazy cloud on Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

walkart
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by walkart » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:57 am

Crazy cloud wrote: Hi, actually I guess it's a bit to weird, and possibly something one would ask a monastic ..

But in short:


hightened vision (been able to read without binoculars, perfect eyesight - use glasses since i was 6 years of age)

automatic pinpointed vision (every morning after waking up - the first object i lay my eyes on, and the mind itself performed a instant and perfect adjustment in clearness, details, colors and so on - emtying the mind, stillness ..)

hightened memory (ability to memorize tree times normal amount)

"read minds" ..

cessation of self - (I could se my old self diappear, day by day - and I couldn't belive what was happening, so I tried several times to lure the demon out in the open, but it was gone, and the dream is over)

seeing 2bodies in every person in a random group of people


Just like to add, that this process lasted about 6 months, and was before I started reading and practicing the dhamma - I was in a state of emty awareness, that's it I think .. :)

Be happy :candle:
Thank you for sharing, it's inresting!
:anjali:

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Mkoll
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Mkoll » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:49 am

manas wrote:The fifth precept forbids "strong drinks (& Intoxicants?) that lead to heedlessness". So it isn't that simple, because in this particular case (and so I've read, for quite a few other folks also), the plant ayahuasca did not lead to heedlessness, but rather to a sense of clarity and conviction.
It leads to you tripping balls and hallucinating things that aren't there. If you want to know about the crazy and harmful actions that this "clarity" leads to, just check out the Erowid experience vault; I recommend the Datura section if you want a horrifying glimpse at temporary insanity.
manas wrote:I'm not advocating anyone take it, just saying that the fifth precept does not appear to decisively advise against this particular plant.
Did you expect him to give a list of every psychoactive plant and substance? The spirit of the precept is clear, the lettering of rules always leaves room for interpretation.

~~~

Drugs are antithetical to Dhamma practice. Period. End of story.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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