Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

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daverupa
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by daverupa » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:03 pm

Viscid wrote:I'm planning to do Ayahuasca this September...
Come for the sensory chaos, stay for the increased gastrointestinal motility?

:tongue:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:14 pm

What a delightful prospect - spaced out and cleared out..... :jumping:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Viscid
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Viscid » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:32 pm

And it doesn't surprise me that someone who had a strong experience on Ayahuasca would have their faith in Buddhism forged or strengthened. The Three Marks and the Four Noble Truths are most evident in such violent, harrowing and transcendent moments. Even if the Ayahuasca experience isn't at all Buddhist, it can still serve to illustrate the ubiquity of impermanence, not-self and suffering. Seeing such truth first-hand would wake someone up to the knowledge that the core of Buddhism is not just cultural tradition, but brute fact.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

walkart
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by walkart » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:36 pm

Can some one describe what he (or some one who experianed it) have seen under ayahuasca?

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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:49 pm

Perhaps if you want to encourage people to do very strong drugs, you do so on a non Buddhist forum!!!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Mkoll
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Mkoll » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Panegalli wrote:Ok, but reality is always reality, and if it is useful to take ayahuasca, i think it should be recommended.
Delusion is always delusion.

I've done an ayahuasca analogue once before, using different plants from traditional ayahuasca but containing the same chemicals needed for the experience, namely DMT and an MAOI. I perceived the presence of aliens and dinosaurs and there were times of intense hopelessness and intense ecstasy. Definitely the strongest drug I ever used and the most foul tasting liquid I've ever drunk. I can still bring up a gag reflex just remembering the taste in the back of my throat.

I could see how someone could delude themselves into believing something as grandiose as having achieved Nibbana after using the drug. But, it takes a certain kind of already susceptible personality to actually believe that about themselves. Certain Christians might believe they met Christ or are Christ, certain Hindus might believe they've met Krishna or Shiva or have become Krishna or Shiva, and certain Buddhists might believe they've achieved Nibbana. It's delusion conditioned by one's beliefs, that's all.

I wasn't Buddhist when I used it. I don't recommend it now.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Panegalli
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Panegalli » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:17 pm

walkart wrote:
Panegalli wrote:
Unshakeable faith in the buddha, the dhamma and the sangha.
No angry thoughts towards other beings.
No attachment to rites and rituals.
No view of self
Stream enterer have fruit of Dhamma eye, not fruit of Nibbana.

Is this person is you?

Yes

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:32 pm

So from your very first post, you intended some form of deceit by stipulating that the person experiencing this was someone you know - whereas, in fact, you were speaking about yourself?


No, someone who has Gone Beyond, an arahant, a person who has attained Nibbana, does not need to lie, obscure or use subterfuge.

You have not attained Nibbana.
In fact, I would say you are clinging to the hope that someone will agree with you, because it's what you'd like to think.

But frankly, an awakened person has no need to ask.
Hence my initial doubt, which you have just confirmed.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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seeker242
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:43 pm

Panegalli wrote:I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?
I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

:anjali:

Panegalli
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Panegalli » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:48 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:So from your very first post, you intended some form of deceit by stipulating that the person experiencing this was someone you know - whereas, in fact, you were speaking about yourself?


No, someone who has Gone Beyond, an arahant, a person who has attained Nibbana, does not need to lie, obscure or use subterfuge.

You have not attained Nibbana.
In fact, I would say you are clinging to the hope that someone will agree with you, because it's what you'd like to think.

But frankly, an awakened person has no need to ask.
Hence my initial doubt, which you have just confirmed.
I'm sorry, I didn't intend to do that, I didn't feel I lied because I am a person I know.

Panegalli
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Panegalli » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:54 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Panegalli wrote:I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?
I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

:anjali:
perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:54 pm

It's called 'being economical with the truth' and it's not what you said necessarily; it was the intention behind it.
You were hesitant or reluctant to reveal this 'person you know' was you, in order to deflect criticism.

I repeat:
You have been nowhere 'near' Nibbana.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Mkoll
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Mkoll » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:58 pm

Panegalli wrote:
seeker242 wrote:
Panegalli wrote:I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?
I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

:anjali:
perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.
:thumbsup:

That's a better view to have than your OP.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:01 pm

You are the most splendid arbiter, Mkoll.... :sage:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

Panegalli
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

Post by Panegalli » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:03 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:It's called 'being economical with the truth' and it's not what you said necessarily; it was the intention behind it.
You were hesitant or reluctant to reveal this 'person you know' was you, in order to deflect criticism.

I repeat:
You have been nowhere 'near' Nibbana.
I didn't want to reveal that it was me because it would make people more resistant to my sugestion.

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