I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mehdi
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I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Mehdi »

Hello,

I had a revelation a few years ago when I stumbled upon the essence of Dhamma after longs years of spiritual search.
To make a long story short, I lived a very stressful life, and I shifted. I changed. Deeply. However, Now I am not able to get "really" excited by things anymore. I became somehow "jaded". Though i feel happy and peaceful inside. I often look thoughtful. Tough, I do laugh a lot and show joy, i am a cheerful person generally, I love to practice sport, eat good food... But still, I feel like I do not have energy left for all that "messing around" that occupy usual people's lifes.

Lately i was on a trip abroad with my girlfriend. It was an ordeal. First off, she wanted to visit everything compulsively. She felt like if she did not do every single thing that was described in the tourist guide she would not take advantage of the trip. As far as I was concerned, to be honest, I could just stay in the hostel and take rest, visit a few things around, and be happy and satisfied with it. She boldly told me I was good for nothing. because I was indifferent, and slow... She called me a vegetable. It did not hurt me, but it made me think. She might be right in some way. For example, I am still a bit ambitious professionally, but, to be honest, my motivation was drastically dragged down. I only work to make a living now, and my corporate work has no deep meaning to me. So i just do it. I feel like nothing is really important after all. I just concentrate on fulfilling basic needs and spiritual life. All the rest is flourish.

Question is
, have I become a "vegetable" ? My job makes me tired. I wake up way too early every day and sleep relatively late. I take secret naps during the working day because I feel too tired. So when I have free time, sleeping and meditating are my favorite activities. And i am not ashamed at all. I'm totally ok with it. I was just wondering if there was another way of doing things, should I pull myself together or just let go...
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DNS
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by DNS »

Mehdi wrote: because I was indifferent,
Image

Indifference is the near enemy of equanimity. It sounds like you just need some more energy; perhaps with a healthy diet, some exercise, or something else to improve your energy. Viriya (energy) is listed 9 times in the 37 factors of enlightenment (more than any other quality).
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

If practising the Dhamma doesn't lead to world weariness, then you're not doing it right.

The Path to Nibbāna

“Surely the path that leads to worldly gain is one,
and the path that leads to nibbāna is another;
understanding this, the monk, the disciple of the Buddha,
should not rejoice in worldly favours, but cultivate detachment.” (Dhp v 75)

Associating with the worldly is tiresome. It is better to stay alone than to associate with fools. There is no end to sight-seeing, and pointless activities. If you're active and diligent in doing some useful work for social welfare that's excellent, but in the pursuit of sensual pleasures it's better to be lazy.
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waterchan
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by waterchan »

Mehdi wrote: Lately i was on a trip abroad with my girlfriend. It was an ordeal. First off, she wanted to visit everything compulsively. She felt like if she did not do every single thing that was described in the tourist guide she would not take advantage of the trip. As far as I was concerned, to be honest, I could just stay in the hostel and take rest, visit a few things around, and be happy and satisfied with it. She boldly told me I was good for nothing. because I was indifferent, and slow... She called me a vegetable.
I have nothing against sightseeing and a bit of sense indulgence, but having to do "every single thing that was described in the tourist guide" sounds extremely obsessive, if that is quite literally what you meant. As a Dhamma practitioner, it's natural for you to have less of an obsession, and that is healthy.

But your story leads me to wonder if this is a new girlfriend or an unplanned trip. One would definitely know and be prepared for the obsessive tendencies of their partner if one had been in that relationship for six months or more.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
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SDC
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by SDC »

waterchan wrote:But your story leads me to wonder if this is a new girlfriend or an unplanned trip. One would definitely know and be prepared for the obsessive tendencies of their partner if one had been in that relationship for six months or more.
Same thoughts here. Sounds like this is more of a case of you and her not being on the same page than a situation which requires you to question your practice.

The lay life does require some engagement and in some cases sacrifice and compromise. If you frequently engage in an indifferent, borderline uncooperative manner then you may end up missing a very important lesson about selflessness, and unknowingly reinforce a good deal of selfishness.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by santa100 »

Mehdi wrote:First off, she wanted to visit everything compulsively. She felt like if she did not do every single thing that was described in the tourist guide she would not take advantage of the trip...She boldly told me I was good for nothing. because I was indifferent, and slow... She called me a vegetable
In order to have a stable and long lasting relationship, you'd need a good partner who's willing to understand, support and care about you. From the highlighted parts above, even if it might just be her brief moment of anger, you should seriously take a closer look to see if she's really the right partner who's willing to support you and your cultivation of Dhamma practice in the long run. Else, confidently march on alone like a proud "rhinoceros".
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Aloka »

Question is, have I become a "vegetable" ? My job makes me tired. I wake up way too early every day and sleep relatively late. I take secret naps during the working day because I feel too tired. So when I have free time, sleeping and meditating are my favorite activities. And i am not ashamed at all. I'm totally ok with it. I was just wondering if there was another way of doing things, should I pull myself together or just let go...Mehdi
I think it would be a really good idea (as David has already mentioned) to review your diet and levels of nutrition and also to have a daily exercise plan. You might then begin to feel more alert and energised.

.
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Viscid »

Pesala wrote:Associating with the worldly is tiresome. It is better to stay alone than to associate with fools. There is no end to sight-seeing, and pointless activities.
While this attitude is ideal for monks striving diligently toward Nibbana, it doesn't seem appropriate for those invested in lay life. Someone who has a simultaneous regard for radical dispassion and involvement in worldly affairs is in a state of conflict.

Mehdi seems lethargic. Such a lethargy could be rationalized as the result of an admirable spiritual practice, but such a rationalization may be dangerous, as lethargy should be remedied, not glorified. The difference between lethargic anhedonia and the dispassion of renunciation is in intent: If Mehdi put everything aside because he came to the rational conclusion that total liberation was the primary goal he wished to strive toward, then that's one thing.. but if his condition was unintentionally brought on, and is interfering with the life he wishes to live, and the relationships he wishes to maintain, then that indifference is a serious problem.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Viscid wrote:
Pesala wrote:Associating with the worldly is tiresome. It is better to stay alone than to associate with fools. There is no end to sight-seeing, and pointless activities.
While this attitude is ideal for monks striving diligently toward Nibbana, it doesn't seem appropriate for those invested in lay life. Someone who has a simultaneous regard for radical dispassion and involvement in worldly affairs is in a state of conflict.
I wonder why you removed the "Bhikkhu" from my name?

Whether one is a Bhikkhu or a lay person, one should strive towards achieving nibbāna, and one should avoid foolish worldly people who are only interested in the pursuit of sensual pleasures.

Especially in the choice of a marriage partner, one should choose someone with similar aims, or there will be lifelong conflict. It is rare to find a couple, even where both partners are Buddhists, who share equal devotion to the Dhamma, but at least if Dhamma practice is encouraged rather than being obstructed or scorned by one partner, they can get along together well enough.

In working for any business where the aim is to make money, there is conflict with the Dhamma from the beginning. A lay person may have little choice about that, having to take whatever employment they can get. However, girlfriends and boyfriends, and other close associates are a free choice. Unless there are already children, no one is under any obligation to marry an unsuitable partner.

It would be better to stay single than to marry the wrong person. I have seen many cases of couples who argue constantly, beat each other up, or go their separate ways. It's not a good marriage unless there is tolerance, harmony, and co-operation.
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Mkoll
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Mkoll »

There's been some good advice for Mehdi in this thread. My favorites:
santa100 wrote:From the highlighted parts above, even if it might just be her brief moment of anger, you should seriously take a closer look to see if she's really the right partner who's willing to support you and your cultivation of Dhamma practice in the long run.
David N. Snyder wrote:It sounds like you just need some more energy; perhaps with a healthy diet, some exercise, or something else to improve your energy. Viriya (energy) is listed 9 times in the 37 factors of enlightenment (more than any other quality).
If you're tired and bored all the time, there's something up with your practice, your lifestyle, or most likely both. You've got to find the balance that's right for you and that means not going to extremes.

You're asking people on an internet forum who don't know you whether we think you're a vegetable. To me, that's extreme and indicative of strong doubt.

May you be well.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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seeker242
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by seeker242 »

Mehdi wrote:
Lately i was on a trip abroad with my girlfriend. It was an ordeal. First off, she wanted to visit everything compulsively. She felt like if she did not do every single thing that was described in the tourist guide she would not take advantage of the trip. As far as I was concerned, to be honest, I could just stay in the hostel and take rest, visit a few things around, and be happy and satisfied with it.
Just thinking out loud here. :smile: Did having to go out of the hostel and go see things, make you unhappy and unsatisfied? If so, why? Did you have a preference for staying there and not doing much? And because your preference was not being met, it became an "ordeal"? If it really doesn't matter, then why would it matter if you stayed there or went sightseeing? Was there "aversion" to going sightseeing? If so, why? Was there clinging to the preference to stay at the hostel? If so, why?

I don't know if you are a vegetable or not. Not enough information from an internet post. :smile: But, what I do know is that if there is dukkha in a particular situation, there must be clinging to something, somewhere in that situation. Did having to go sightseeing cause you to experience dukkha? If so, why? Those are the questions I would be asking myself personally.

:namaste:
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manas
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by manas »

Hi Medhi,

it's possible to be calm and relaxed even amidst the bustle of life, too. Sure, many of us Buddhists prefer a bit more peace and calm, but it feels pretty good when you learn how to be calm even amidst noise and bustle.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
pegembara
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by pegembara »

Mehdi wrote:Hello,

I had a revelation a few years ago when I stumbled upon the essence of Dhamma after longs years of spiritual search.
To make a long story short, I lived a very stressful life, and I shifted. I changed. Deeply. However, Now I am not able to get "really" excited by things anymore. I became somehow "jaded". Though i feel happy and peaceful inside. I often look thoughtful. Tough, I do laugh a lot and show joy, i am a cheerful person generally, I love to practice sport, eat good food... But still, I feel like I do not have energy left for all that "messing around" that occupy usual people's lifes.

Lately i was on a trip abroad with my girlfriend. It was an ordeal. First off, she wanted to visit everything compulsively. She felt like if she did not do every single thing that was described in the tourist guide she would not take advantage of the trip. As far as I was concerned, to be honest, I could just stay in the hostel and take rest, visit a few things around, and be happy and satisfied with it. She boldly told me I was good for nothing. because I was indifferent, and slow... She called me a vegetable. It did not hurt me, but it made me think. She might be right in some way. For example, I am still a bit ambitious professionally, but, to be honest, my motivation was drastically dragged down. I only work to make a living now, and my corporate work has no deep meaning to me. So i just do it. I feel like nothing is really important after all. I just concentrate on fulfilling basic needs and spiritual life. All the rest is flourish.

Question is
, have I become a "vegetable" ? My job makes me tired. I wake up way too early every day and sleep relatively late. I take secret naps during the working day because I feel too tired. So when I have free time, sleeping and meditating are my favorite activities. And i am not ashamed at all. I'm totally ok with it. I was just wondering if there was another way of doing things, should I pull myself together or just let go...

"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.

"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.

"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.

"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.

"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Crazy cloud »

Mehdi wrote:Hello,


Question is[/b], have I become a "vegetable" ? My job makes me tired. I wake up way too early every day and sleep relatively late. I take secret naps during the working day because I feel too tired. So when I have free time, sleeping and meditating are my favorite activities. And i am not ashamed at all. I'm totally ok with it. I was just wondering if there was another way of doing things, should I pull myself together or just let go...
But is your boss and your company all right with this secret?

And btw; there is always someone watching you, so there's no such thing as a "perfect crime"

Be well :)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Post by Modus.Ponens »

David N. Snyder wrote: Indifference is the near enemy of equanimity. It sounds like you just need some more energy; perhaps with a healthy diet, some exercise, or something else to improve your energy. Viriya (energy) is listed 9 times in the 37 factors of enlightenment (more than any other quality).
I would guess that David is right. I remember someone coming to this forum with similar, but more severe complaints of indifference. He complained that he could barely feel anything. People advised metta as a way of "reviving" the heart, which I would also guess it's a good advice.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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