Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu May 08, 2014 7:43 am

gavesako wrote:Tim Ward's book is full of factual mistakes and inaccuracies which are only to be expected of someone who popped into the monastery for five minutes in order to write a book about it. You would be advised to consult other sources as well to gain a balanced perspective on what goes on at WPN.
I don't recall meeting Tim Ward while I was at Wat Pah Nanachat , but I am pretty sure that it is factually inaccurate to say that he only popped into the monastery for five minutes. It must have been at least five days. It seems that he ordained too.
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ArkA
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by ArkA » Thu May 08, 2014 10:21 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
gavesako wrote:Tim Ward's book is full of factual mistakes and inaccuracies which are only to be expected of someone who popped into the monastery for five minutes in order to write a book about it. You would be advised to consult other sources as well to gain a balanced perspective on what goes on at WPN.
I don't recall meeting Tim Ward while I was at Wat Pah Nanachat , but I am pretty sure that it is factually inaccurate to say that he only popped into the monastery for five minutes. It must have been at least five days. It seems that he ordained too.
Thank you Bhante for that clarification. :anjali: I also found it far–fetched that someone wrote a book based on five minutes of observation. I wonder how far he walked inside from the main gate. :)
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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Thu May 08, 2014 4:20 pm

I don't think the ven. Gavesako meant literally "five minutes" :juggling: but just a relatively short timespan - his point of view might be too short to really get to know this place, people, traditions and ways of practice. I stayed as a pahkow for approx. 3 months ... it felt like 15 minutes. And I personally do not think I'd be able to give a balanced and just report let alone writing a book. Therefor I never really sayed anything like this: WPN is like this!
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Tue May 20, 2014 2:48 pm

Ajahn Brahm "The Art of disappearing", Page 93, Wisdom Publications
...So we should see the fault-finding mind as a problem, a snake, a danger to be avoided. It's common in the West to think that fault-finding is good. People sometimes write books with a fault-finding attitude in order to destroy authority, tradition, and institutions. Some years ago, someone visited Wat Pah Nanachat for three or four weeks and then wrote a book about his experiences. He really blasted the monastery and Ajahn Chah. He focused on everything that he thought was wrong, and consequently the book was completely unfair and unbalanced. People do this sort of thing because there's a certain pleasure in fault-finding. But be careful, because the danger far outweighs the pleasure. When you know this, you realize the fault-finding mind is a snake, and you can start to avoid it in the future.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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Goofaholix
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Goofaholix » Tue May 20, 2014 7:34 pm

Sokehi wrote:I don't think the ven. Gavesako meant literally "five minutes" :juggling: but just a relatively short timespan - his point of view might be too short to really get to know this place, people, traditions and ways of practice. I stayed as a pahkow for approx. 3 months ... it felt like 15 minutes. And I personally do not think I'd be able to give a balanced and just report let alone writing a book. Therefor I never really sayed anything like this: WPN is like this!
It was 6 weeks, and having been there for 3 months like you I share your sentiment I couldn't write a book about it. I assume he was previously an author so went there with the idea he might write a book about it, it's easier to accumulate material when you're looking for it.
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KumarS
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by KumarS » Fri May 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Zom wrote:I would not recommend becoming a monk before establishing a solid foundation for that in lay-life. Being a monk is not a fun, but a hard work and serious task. While disrobing is called by the Buddha "a death in the Discipline of the Noble Ones". Very few people stay in robes for all their life. Perhaps only 5% of those who's got ordination. All others "are dead".
You mean that it is better not to have ordained at all than to ordain and then disrobe?

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Fri May 23, 2014 5:14 pm

It's always good to ordain. It forces you to look deeper into your selfview, habits and accumulated patterns. If one disrobes - well... one has learnt something for sure, and years later maybe one wants to go back - this time better equipt with a clearer picturer of what one is encountering there. In the end one who leads the householders life is just trading one suffering for a new suffering. So don't expect bliss and easy living. It really is hard work, but benefitial - and if it's just for a week. :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Sat May 24, 2014 12:58 pm

On Topic WPN:

I found two talks by ven. Ajahn Achalo he gave at Nanachat in 2013/2014 and they might be of interest for postulants :console:
"How I survived 18 years of monastic life - talk given to the monks at Wat Pah Nanachat (August 2013)"
"Sincere, Committed Practice , Wat Pah Nanachat (Jan 2014) "

http://www.peacebeyondsuffering.org/new-talks.html

or they can be found on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=032yw3-I9io
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

jameswang
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by jameswang » Tue May 27, 2014 11:43 am

I personally think we shouldn't become monks with the intention of disrobing later. Seems to trivialize ordination. Anyway, I think WPN requires one to stay for quite some time before the abbot would consider one for ordination.

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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Tue May 27, 2014 2:51 pm

jameswang wrote:I personally think we shouldn't become monks with the intention of disrobing later. Seems to trivialize ordination. Anyway, I think WPN requires one to stay for quite some time before the abbot would consider one for ordination.
I don't think anyone suggested this - ordaining to disrobe later. But sometimes that happens. Things change :)
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

jameswang
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by jameswang » Sat May 31, 2014 7:04 am

Sokehi wrote:I don't think anyone suggested this - ordaining to disrobe later. But sometimes that happens. Things change :)
OIC. Sorry. I misunderstood what you said. I agree with you.
I was thinking of people who do that temporary monkhood thing.

walkart
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by walkart » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:40 am

Hello,
What is the most difficult while you train at WPN?

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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:56 am

It depends where your attachments are. Food, physical comfort, being loved, the need to feel important, getting things your way... many of these things you need to give up either fully or partially. Basically you have to die. You are like a stick that has been in water for many years, you will need to dry up - to quote Ajahn Chah - and that is unpleasant sometimes.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

walkart
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by walkart » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:23 pm

Sokehi wrote:It depends where your attachments are. Food, physical comfort, being loved, the need to feel important, getting things your way... many of these things you need to give up either fully or partially. Basically you have to die. You are like a stick that has been in water for many years, you will need to dry up - to quote Ajahn Chah - and that is unpleasant sometimes.
I fear about physical pain that i could not tolerate.
If i don't mistake there is no cushions for meditation and pillow for the head. Sleeping and meditation on the hard floor is somethink that can be trained, but it must be difficult for the neck and head to sleep without any pillow or somethink to put under your head. What you can say about physical difficulties?

Thank you for information!

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Sokehi
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Post by Sokehi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:19 pm

walkart wrote:
I fear about physical pain that i could not tolerate.
If i don't mistake there is no cushions for meditation and pillow for the head. Sleeping and meditation on the hard floor is somethink that can be trained, but it must be difficult for the neck and head to sleep without any pillow or somethink to put under your head. What you can say about physical difficulties?

Thank you for information!
My experience from Nanachat is 12 years old and I stayed for around 3 months as an Pahkow. So keep this in mind, my information is quite old as is my experience, things might have changed. Plus I guess any information given by anyone who stayed as short as I did is pretty much incomplete. :)

But I'm happy to share what I have to tell you from my time back then:

- I didn't have a pillow but I used my backpack to lift my head a bit of the ground
- we were allowed to use meditation cushions. I remember sitting at around 5 pm at the outer sala and get some cushions out of a cupboard for the others. But I learned there to be able to sit without a cushion. Today I sometimes use a cushion, sometimes I don't. During Dhamma talks or informal gatherings we didn't use cushions but just squatted down on the floor. After a while I got used to it and it isn't that bad.
- when I arrived there it was december so at night time it was quite cold. the worst of physical hardships I had to endure there was to be cold all night. Some Kutis are quite windy so to speak. I was granted a piece of styrofoam or something from a friendly samanera, this I did put under my hips to keep them a bit more protected from the cold breeze

Everything else seemed to be just fine and I'm not critical about the hardships at all. There is a lesson to be found in such things :)

I hope that helps a bit. If in doubt it might be a good idea to write a letter to the current guest monk of WPN to get clarification on the things you are the most interested in. Mettacittena.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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