Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SamKR
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by SamKR » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:15 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
SamKR wrote:To make this specific post on-topic :tongue: I want to stress that the statement "there is only momentariness" is a view, and the statement that "there is no momentariness" is also a view. But when someone sees directly all kinds of anicca (including momentariness), and that conforms to (or at least does not contradict) the Buddha's words in the suttas, then that seeing no longer remains a mere view -- it becomes vipassana endowed with right view.
It's for each of us to discern if what we are directly perceiving or inferring on the basis of direct perception is valid or invalid, useful or not. If one thinks the idea of momentariness is a valid representation of their own experiential cognitive processes, and this aids in the development of disenchantment and dispassion, then it's useful.
True. I agree.

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waterchan
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 1:50 am

*breathes life into this thread once again*

This has been a very illuminating discussion on the subject of commentarial notions vs suttic notions and I'd like to read more.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed May 07, 2014 2:56 am

waterchan wrote:*breathes life into this thread once again*

This has been a very illuminating discussion on the subject of commentarial notions vs suttic notions and I'd like to read more.
And what did you see illuminated?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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waterchan
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 3:28 am

tiltbillings wrote:
waterchan wrote:*breathes life into this thread once again*

This has been a very illuminating discussion on the subject of commentarial notions vs suttic notions and I'd like to read more.
And what did you see illuminated?
As someone who is not very familiar with the commentaries, there was a lot. Maybe it wasn't illumination as much as it was spotlights being haphazardly pointed here and there by a third-rate lighting company across the darkness of the commentarial dance floor.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed May 07, 2014 3:42 am

waterchan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
waterchan wrote:*breathes life into this thread once again*

This has been a very illuminating discussion on the subject of commentarial notions vs suttic notions and I'd like to read more.
And what did you see illuminated?
As someone who is not very familiar with the commentaries, there was a lot. Maybe it wasn't illumination as much as it was spotlights being haphazardly pointed here and there by a third-rate lighting company across the darkness of the commentarial dance floor.
The problem with the commentaries is that is so little of it in actual translation, and most criticisms of the commentaries are based upon not much. But do we jettison the old commentaries and substitute our own personal commentaries, commentaries of modern scholars of the suttas?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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waterchan
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 3:56 am

tiltbillings wrote:The problem with the commentaries is that is so little of it in actual translation, and most criticisms of the commentaries are based upon not much. But do we jettison the old commentaries and substitute our own personal commentaries, commentaries of modern scholars of the suttas?
I wouldn't think of jettisoning them — some of the commentaries can be helpful and are even considered authoritative by sutta-centric teachers such as Ajahn Brahm. I think the complaints are that some people put them up on the same pedestal as the Nikayas, to the point of not questioning them when they introduce new doctrinal concepts that find little support in the suttas.

And why isn't Bhikkhu Bodhi translating the commentaries? He should translate every single Pali text in existence, I say.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed May 07, 2014 4:04 am

waterchan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:The problem with the commentaries is that is so little of it in actual translation, and most criticisms of the commentaries are based upon not much. But do we jettison the old commentaries and substitute our own personal commentaries, commentaries of modern scholars of the suttas?
I wouldn't think of jettisoning them — some of the commentaries can be helpful and are even considered authoritative by sutta-centric teachers such as Ajahn Brahm. I think the complaints are that some people put them up on the same pedestal as the Nikayas, to the point of not questioning them when they introduce new doctrinal concepts that find little support in the suttas.

And why isn't Bhikkhu Bodhi translating the commentaries? He should translate every single Pali text in existence, I say.
What is wrong that bhikkhu. He needs to get cracking on that right now!!! The commentaries are commentaries, and they can be wrong, or miss things.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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waterchan
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Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?

Post by waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 4:19 am

tiltbillings wrote:What is wrong that bhikkhu. He needs to get cracking on that right now!!! The commentaries are commentaries, and they can be wrong, or miss things.
Ven Bodhi's procrastination is completely unacceptable. I've heard nothing regarding his Vinaya translation which I expect to be finished by Friday.

I'll give him another week to get all the commentaries translated.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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