rebirth and evolution

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Lazy_eye
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Re: rebirth and evolution

Post by Lazy_eye »

It may be wrongly put; nevertheless the Buddha himself has answered it in various suttas:
When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of the passing away & reappearance of beings. I saw — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away & re-appearing... in accordance with their kamma...
And I think it is clear that the consciousness aggregate is the main actor in this process.

Biological reproduction is also a process of continuity-and-flux; beings arise and rerise, with the iterations connected by a physical link. But this is not Buddhist rebirth.

I agree, though, that "transmigration" is not the best term and I should not have used it; my intention was simply to indicate the difference between the two paradigms. Better, perhaps, to have said it like this:

Evolution explains how physical species originate and develop; rebirth refers to a non-lifespan-delineated process of dependent origination. (I owe that formulation to Retrofuturist).
david.sojourn
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Re: rebirth and evolution

Post by david.sojourn »

altar wrote:I apologize if this is addressed somewhere else like the enormous rebirth debate.

Does survival of the fittest conflict with consciousness rebirth? Is survival of the fittest somehow more than a rational deduction?
Does consciousness come from the brain?
To me, this latter idea used to make sense, or at least i would consider it. But now, especially after having visited monks with super mental abilities or clear seeing, and me putting more weight on experience than on rational thinking, which I usually desist from now, i drift away from the whole idea of evolution from survival of the fittest. But then others mention it and it seems like i should consider it again.
Like I said I desist from rational thinking and think that this question is maybe one i should put aside until later in my life or let the answer come gradually, but i'm going to post this anyway :).
zack
Evolution is on the Delusion side of things.

Rebirth is on the Illusion side of things.

When you put them together, you get a bunch of crazy infinities, infinitely being infinities. And a wicked Paradox too!

I tend to believe all that evolution and rebirth stuff. Except when I don't believe any of that evolution or rebirth stuff. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

My theory on the matter is: Smoke a joint and do something with the heart instead of the mind. There's no good answers up there anyway! 50% of the deception is true, and 50% of the truth is deception, but who will ever figure out which is which!

Ah ha! I bet I'm right!
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Mkoll
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Re: rebirth and evolution

Post by Mkoll »

david.sojourn wrote:My theory on the matter is: Smoke a joint and do something with the heart instead of the mind.
Don't smoke, it's bad for your lungs. Don't do drugs, they're bad for your mind. Just some friendly advice.

:soap:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Kasina
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Re: rebirth and evolution

Post by Kasina »

daverupa wrote:
Lazy_eye wrote:what do you see as being reborn?
I think this question is wrongly put. There isn't a thing getting reborn: there's the presence of conditions for the arising of consciousness here or there, or there isn't.
:goodpost:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
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ihrjordan
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Re: rebirth and evolution

Post by ihrjordan »

altar wrote:I am watching this very good talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f70tKopDm_c

and realized how to state my problem.

Is our intelligence caused by previous karma or the result of our brain?
Or am i missing the point...? By separating karma and the brain am i somehow creating two realities which aren't really separate?

By consciousness rebirth i mean the birth of consciousness into a new body
I believe this video should answer on of your questions quite nicely.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPGZSC8odIU .and as for the whole talk on if there is rebirth, how are there more people now then before..i believe it's fair to point out that there are 31 planes of existence http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... /loka.html so maybe our kamma allowed to "move up" I guess.
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"
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