Ordination in Sri Lanka

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Assaji
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by Assaji »

Hi Andrew,
andrewhallas wrote:I wonder does anyone know of a web site or blog page for this center?
There's no website, except for a Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sot%C4%81 ... 4482988271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and Dmytro would this (Sumanthipala Na Himi Senasun Arana Kanduboda, Sri Lanka) be the address?
Yes.

Sinhala lessons on the web with audio: http://www.speaksinhala.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes!
piano piano
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by piano piano »

A few further considerations.

Certainly it has been said in other threads that it is better to approach ordination gently,
not to rush into it. It is easy to become a monk, but hard to remain one. It is particularly
easy in Sri Lanka, and other places in Asia, where the Anagarika-concept introduced by the
Ajahn Chah-"school" is not practized; that practice gives people time to adjust to the new
life-circumstances without putting on them obligations and demands they might have
idealized or unrealistically fantasized about. In Sri Lanka you can be a samanera on the day
of your arrival, if you want. But that would be foolish. It is not less foolish, though, if you
postpone it for a few weeks only.

These obligations and demands can become particularly heavy in a totally foreign culture
and environment like Sri Lanka. Several things add to the pressure you put yourself in. The
first and probably most important is the visa-situation. Unlike withThailand where you can
just do an easy visa-run to a neighbouring country, Sri Lanka as an Island doesn't give that
opportunity. India is close, yes, Chennai/Madras just an hour's flight away, but getting an
Indian visa more than once isn't easy anymore. A better option would be Malaysia where you
get an automatic 3-month visa-on-arrival, and have an inexpensive flight with Air Asia from
Colombo to Kuala Lumpur (costs like a little more than US $100, around the same as a
flight to nearby Madras. The other option, Bangkok, a bit more expensive if by direct-
flight, yet also cheap if via KL and from there by train, but also easy visa-wise).

So even with the relative luxury of a 3-month visa for Sri Lanka, your time to find the place
to ordain would be narrowed down to a little more than two months, because you need to
apply for the new visa in the remaining weeks. That means, as a new arrival who is not
familiar with culture, customs, places, monasteries, climate, food, transportation you come
under immense pressure due to this limitation of time.

Now it will be good for you to know that a visa can be extended for lay-Buddhists staying
in a respected institution (respected by the Government that is). This is a process that
involves runnig from pillar to post, if you have to do it yourself: a support letter from the
institution or meditation center is required, then the signature of an official monk of the
area, plus filing the whole thing with the Buddhist adminstration of the Government, and
then hoping the docs are forwarded in time to the visa-granting office, which means this is
a time- and nerve-consuming process.

Fortunately, large monasteries like Na Uyana handle this for you. But even with them you
have to initiate the process early on. That means you don't have a passport for a while, and
are technically in difficulty for that time if you wish to look at other places meanwhile. But
you can do it anyhow.

I was there when the civil war was still raging with bombs still being placed on buses, so
buses were checked at check-posts and people frisked. The one time it happened to me I
had no other identification than an airline-mileage card (I did not want to hand over my
credit-card for fear they might keep it), and I passed with that. So it should be easy now
that there are no check-points anymore.

In your situation I would keep an open time-window that you give yourself to check out
places and get accustomed. You need more than just a few weeks time to know which
place is good for you. Therefore my advice: Remain a lay-person for several extensions of
visas, and even keep the option open to look at places other than Sri Lanka, which means,
take enough money to pay for flights and stays on the way.

Once you are ordained you can't handle money anymore, so it is hard to travel, even on
very short trips, like on a bus-ride. Even though Sri Lanka is a Buddhist country, it is rare
that someone approaches you (a monk) to ask if you require assistance. Even if you have a dayaka or
kappiya (person assisting a monk with things he can't do by himself), you need to be aware
that people in these countries can be extremely unreliable. Asians often don't have this kind
of sense of urgency that westerners have when it comes to giving a promise or accepting a duty toward
another person.

Another important aspect of life in Sri Lanka is the food-situation. Obviously as someone
willing to ordain you are aware that you will live by whatever you get. Initially this might not
be much of a problem, except that you might get frequent stomach-upsets and diarrhea, because Sri Lankan
food tends to consist of a lot of carbo-hydrates with very little veggie-curries which are very hot.

They also serve a lot of what they call chutneys (but not the kind that you might know from
Northern India, yet more similar to the ones of Southern India, but still different, basically
just coconut plus red or green chili, often raw). Too much chili can cause a problem for the stomach. Most
Sinhalese are vegetarians, and since milk is not as abundantly available as in India for
instance, and even grains other than rice is rare (wheat needs to be imported) you'll have a
hard time to get enough protein.

This may seem a trifle for someone with an idealized fantasy of ordaining in his mind. But it
can have dire consequences for someone with a different body-type accustomed to other
nutrients. Malnutrition will become a normal reality for you. Again, Na Uyana has the
advantage of large quantities of food being prepared there. In fact, donors are wait-listed
to come and cook for the monks; whole villages make it their pride to be listed to come
for one day in a year and cook food for the monks. So a daily changing crowd of people
prepare the dana there. Which does not mean the food is particularly rich, but certainly
abundant.

The situation at Ven. Pemasiri's place Siemantipala Meditation Center is similar, only there one person is cooking plus some pindapata dana is offered to lay-people. Monks do go for pindapata, which they don't do at Na Uyana, except the older ones staying up in the hills far from the new monks. (Na Uyana is that large.)

The conclusion from this is: It is important to look at how a place where you might ordain is
supported. If you know monks and their preoccupation, you will have noticed that in the
long run food becomes the major concern for them. (When I was kappiya at a monastery in Europe, I overheard one monk present there informing another who was to come later, about my skills: "He knows how to cook!". :smile: )

It is not my intention to discourage anyone reading this, but just to give my point of view
gathered from my definitely limited and biased conclusions from my experience there, providing a possibility for reality check for those who might not know what they are heading into.

May you be happy with your worthy intentions.
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James the Giant
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by James the Giant »

piano piano wrote:A few further considerations...
Wow, thanks for taking the time to give that info Piano Piano, that's both sobering and useful.
It makes me glad that I have decided to ordain in the west!
But I'll still go there for three months next year, just in case it grabs me.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
andrewhallas
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by andrewhallas »

pianopiano

What wonderful information shared 'PP' these are wise words indeed and a must read for all who are thinking of ordination anywhere in Asia not just Sri Lanka. I really thank you from the bottom of my heart, as I'm sure this must of taken you a fair amount of time to write & compose. It hits all the right emotions spots for someone just about to embark on this great journey. so wonderfully written. thank you 'PP'

I have spent almost all my life travelling the world, I don't mean the GAP year student thing that has become so popular over the years. I actually disappeared, immersed myself into the world, I wandered around the world, just seeing where life took me, almost like a passenger onboard my own ship just watching with fascination my mind and its association with life unfolding. (only in the last year have I found about 'tudong') but it seems I've did something very similar for over 10 years

My life has been rough, not really like most people growing up in England, but this is the most wondrous life I know, being rough and giving up my attachments to everything. Most people will read that sentence as giving up material possessions, but as we know it's about giving up 'everything' all those attachments we have in our mind as well. Then truly becoming free.

Its only now have all those wonderful lessons in my life seemed to have slotted into place so perfectly I know that my destiny is to become a homeless one.

With your wonderful advice 'PP' My rough plan of attack is to do exactly what you have said. I'm going to spend some time wandering around Sri Lanka visiting the many wonderful meditation centres and some of the great suggestions that have been provided for the entire 3months. By this time I will know if Sri Lanka is the place for me to ordain or not. If it is right I would have had enough time to get a sponsorship letter from a monastery to help assist me in a new visa.
I would then Fly home and either sort out new visa and close the last loose end of my life hear. If Sri Lanka is not the place for me I will then try Thailand and Malaysia.

Once again 'PP' I thank you so very much for the great advice and hope that it will also benefit other who are reading this.also maybe considering ordination in Asia

Metta Metta Metta

Andrew
andrewhallas
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by andrewhallas »

Dmytro wrote:
Sinhala lessons on the web with audio: http://www.speaksinhala.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes!
This is awesome stuff, thank you so very much Dmytro. Such a wonderful language and following along with these lessons I really like it ebb and flow and easy to grasp (ish) with more practice i think i will be able to at least attempt to have conversations, and with practice we get better.

many many thanks for the info.

If anyone has even a small peice of advice wether on visa's or travel while there, any more meditation centres or monesterys you have experience with or have herd about i really would appreciate the advice. even if your granny has some special formular for mosquito repelant.

Metta kindness to all :heart:

Andrew
piano piano
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by piano piano »

Andrew, you are mentioning a request for info on other meditation centers in Sri Lanka. I had not mentioned Lewella Bhavana yet, which actually could serve as your first base if you head to Kandy where the BPS (Buddhist Publ. Soc) is. It was first established under the management of Ven. Analayo who was a Samanera then, as a branch of Nilambe, which is the better place of the two. The way I got to know it was when it was in the hands of a group of dedicated lay-people, but since recently it is again managed by monks.

This description is how it was when I stayed there.
http://www.buddhistravel.com/index.php? ... 33,0,0,1,0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is quite a good list of all the other places on this site, even though most of the info is quite dated, often not accurate anymore. But it gives you good info how to get to the places, and about the situation of some of them (noisy or not, good kutis, well supported etc).

The new center at Lewella has its own website, but I can't locate it at the moment. The one of its "mother house", Nilambe, is http://nilambe.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nilambe is really the best place to be in all of Lanka. It's on top of a hill in an old tea-estate, accessible from Kandy. There are western lay-people there who stayed for decades. Although it is a lay-center, monastics often stay there too. It is a small paradise, but it can be cold sometimes.

And to address your request for recipies against mosquitos: In Lanka you are more endangered by leeches, esp when it rains. A citronella or lemon-grass aetheric/essential oil may help to some extent (but you can't pour thsat all over your feet all the time). These creatures are really fast, and can get you unexpectedly, when you find them between your toes or up on your legs.

There is a lot more to say on many topics, but I am short of time at the moment, as I am preparing to go to Thailand next week as kappiya of a monk-friend of mine. Someone else who promised to do the job dropped out ten days before the trip, and I am filling in at the last minute, so to speak. But I had planned to go to Thailand this winter anyhow.
andrewhallas
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by andrewhallas »

Once again thank you for the inspirational advice PianoPiano wise word from someone who
sounds as though they have a lot of experience in Sri Lanka and ordination procedure.

I wish you a wonderful trip in Thailand and hope this is an experience you gain much from

Once again thank you so very much for your valuable input into helping me have a general
idea of the Sri Lanka and her people.

Andrew
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Rob1980
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by Rob1980 »

You dont need to learn Sinhalese as a monk in Sri Lanka. At Na Uyana you can quite easily get around not learning the language and it might, depending on your temperament, be detrimental knowing the language as it means you get to hear all the gossip. The sermons are sometimes given in English and Sinhalese. Most monks speak some english and a rare few may even speak better english than you.

I would strongly advise you to look at as many places as possible before ordaining, once you have decided on a place, stay there for at least 5 years. There are many monks who after just 1 month, 1 year, decide that there might be a better monastery somewhere else. And so off they go, 10 years later they are still searching(or have disrobed).

Look around in Thailand and also the monasteries in England, as well as Sri Lanka. Remember, if you are thinking of ordaining you need to be committed and so it is a good idea to know that you are at the best place for you.

There is a short video on Na Uyana if you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-sk9SGaZUk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that Na Uyana is the by far the best place for someone to learn how to be a monk and learn something about meditation. But remember that you are a foreigner, and you will never be able to fully integrate into the sinhalese culture no matter how long and how well you can speak the language. That is the advantage of being in a community in the west. However, if you have strong meditation, then Sri Lanka is a great place for solitude and practice and one can live out ones romantic ideals of monkhood very nicely. If ygou dont have very very good meditation I would advise caution before embarking on monasticism outside of the west. The support simply is not there(I am talking about emotional support rather than material support(which is in abundance)

Best of luck. I was in the same boat as you 5 years ago, I lived out in Sri Lanka for 5 years as a monk.

I have now returned to the west as a lay person for various reasons.

With metta
Reviews of Meditation and Yoga retreats as well as Monasteries: https://www.reviewmyretreat.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
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melancholy
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EXTREME READER DISCRETION ADVISED

Post by melancholy »

EXTREME READER DISCRETION ADVISED REGARDING ON-LINE RECOMMENDATIONS! IN THE END, IT IS OUR OWN LIFE & SPIRITUAL PATH AT STAKE.

on Nov 07, 2012:
Rob1980 wrote:I think that Na Uyana is the by far the best place for someone to learn how to be a monk and learn something about meditation.
we foreigners must be very cautious about asian spiritual adventures. strange, how people can recommend the very place where they got "extremely disillusioned with monasticism". at the end of four years in the best place as a monk, the subject:
  • 1. got extremely disillusioned
    2. did not have a strong enough foundation in meditation
alas! now he recommend others to go there. :thinking:

on Jul 16, 2013. 12th and 18th posts here:
Rob1980 wrote:I ordained there from 2007-2011.
Rob1980 wrote:Anyway, it was enough for me to be extremely disillusioned with monasticism in general and I disrobed in August 2011, just before the end of the vassa. The only viable option I saw was to live alone in the forests, as do a quite a few forest monks away from all the politics, but I did not have a strong enough foundation in meditation.
why the contradicting recomendation? perhaps, this fear is the reason (18th post):
Rob1980 wrote:I felt slightly hesitant to give my pali name, as I have friends at Na Uyana, and I thought if the elders read what I have said, perhaps I may not be able to go back to Sri Lanka to visit them.
related:
16th post here and here.
Last edited by melancholy on Wed May 07, 2014 3:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."
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ArkA
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Power & Problems

Post by ArkA »

Power can make problems disappear, so they are no longer problems!

;)
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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melancholy
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Re: Power & Problems

Post by melancholy »

ArkA wrote:Power can make problems disappear, so they are no longer problems!

;)
well ArkA, power can do that but only if it can abandon the moral judgement. making problems disappear is not the same as solving them!

;)
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."
beeblebrox
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Re: Power & Problems

Post by beeblebrox »

Check out SN 51.20: Iddhipadavibhanga Sutta... or, the Analysis of the Bases of Power.

:anjali:
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melancholy
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Re: Power & Problems

Post by melancholy »

beeblebrox wrote:Check out SN 51.20: Iddhipadavibhanga Sutta... or, the Analysis of the Bases of Power.

:anjali:
thanks beeblebrox, but ArkA not talking about "chanda, citta, viriya, vimansa". he was talking about my post just before his. it is about the corrupted mundane power and fear about that corrupted power. kind of "paranimmita vasawatti" (control freak) power.

:anjali:
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."
beeblebrox
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Power & Problems

Post by beeblebrox »

melancholy wrote: it is about the corrupted mundane power and fear about that corrupted power.
This quote from the sutta might be related:
SN 51.20

"And how does a monk dwell so that what is below is the same as what is above, and what is above is the same as what is below? There is the case where a monk reflects on this very body, from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin, & full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' This is how a monk dwells so that what is below is the same as what is above, and what is above is the same as what is below.
To put that into context: during the Buddha's time it was commonly believed that the brahmin's caste was born from the crown of Brahma (or his mouth), and that the lowest caste was born from Brahma's foot... people believed that this was what made the brahmins "pure," and that it was what gave them power.

Conversely, they also believed that the lowest caste were unclean (or corrupt), and therefore, unworthy of attention.

There is nothing to be disillusioned about. I think that everyone is a human being, including the monks.

:anjali:
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melancholy
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Re: Ordination in Sri Lanka

Post by melancholy »

well said beeblebrox, well said! sadhu! sadhu!!

surely there is nothing to be disillusioned about, unless the student willingly illusioned himself about the teacher at the first place. buddha gave enough advice regarding how to pick a teacher and the qualifications he must have. to quote thanissaro bhikkhu (thanks to binocular):

/.../
Sometimes you read about teachers who turn out to be major disappointments. They do really horrible things to their students, and the students complain that they've been victimized. But in nearly every case, when you read the whole story, you realize that the students should have seen this coming. There were blatant warning signals that they chose to ignore. You have to be responsible in choosing your teachers, choosing your path. Once you've chosen the path that looks likely, you have to be responsible in following it, in learning how to develop your own sensitivity in following it. Because after all, what is the path that the Buddha points out? There's virtue, there's concentration, and there's discernment. These are all qualities in your own mind. We all have them to some extent. Learning how to develop what's in your own mind is what's going to make all the difference. The Buddha's discernment isn't going to give you awakening; his virtue and concentration aren't going to give you awakening. You have to develop your own. Nobody else can develop these things for you. Other people can give you hints; they can help point you in the right direction. But the actual work and the actual seeing is something you have to do for yourself.
/.../

Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Adult Dhamma.


:anjali:
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."
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