the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Mkoll »

Well there's no way to say for sure what your relationship was with someone in a past life. And I think the point of the Buddha saying those things was not to encourage thinking about them like that. I think the point was to train oneself to see others with the kindness one would see a relative with.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
visitin
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by visitin »

Mkoll wrote:Well there's no way to say for sure what your relationship was with someone in a past life.
Mata Sutta
AtSavatthi. There the Blessed One said:"From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find... A being who has not been your father... your brother... your sister... your son... your daughter at onetime in the past is not easy to find.
chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by chownah »

It seems that the Buddha only slept a couple of hours a night so I think it is reasonable to at least consider the possibility that his rebirth memories might be hallucinations.
trollnah
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waterchan
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by waterchan »

Sleep deprivation can cause hallucinations but you're not sleep-deprived if there's no fatigue.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Mkoll »

visitin wrote:
Mkoll wrote:Well there's no way to say for sure what your relationship was with someone in a past life.
Mata Sutta
AtSavatthi. There the Blessed One said:"From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find... A being who has not been your father... your brother... your sister... your son... your daughter at onetime in the past is not easy to find.
OK. Maybe I misunderstood your question below. What are you trying to say?
vistin wrote:Question is, would you risk marrying someone who might be your blood relative in your past life?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
visitin
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by visitin »

Mkoll,
You didn't misunderstood my question.

You said that "there's no way to say for sure what your relationship was with someone in a past life." But according to the Buddha, its hard to find someone who has not been your blood relative at one time in the past.
Last edited by visitin on Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Mkoll »

OK. Good to know!

:smile:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Spiny Norman »

chownah wrote:It seems that the Buddha only slept a couple of hours a night so I think it is reasonable to at least consider the possibility that his rebirth memories might be hallucinations.
trollnah
Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
Buddha save me from new-agers!
chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by chownah »

Spiny Norman wrote:
chownah wrote:It seems that the Buddha only slept a couple of hours a night so I think it is reasonable to at least consider the possibility that his rebirth memories might be hallucinations.
trollnah
Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
I think it is reasonable if you want to consider this too, but it is not so directly on topic as considering his rebirth memories.
chownah
chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by chownah »

waterchan wrote:Sleep deprivation can cause hallucinations but you're not sleep-deprived if there's no fatigue.
I think that fatigue is one possible symptom of sleep deprivation but I think it is possible to be sleep deprived and not feel fatigue......fatigue is just a feeling after all.
chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Spiny Norman »

chownah wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote: Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
I think it is reasonable if you want to consider this too, but it is not so directly on topic as considering his rebirth memories.
chownah
I think it's fine to question these things, and the authenticity of the suttas, etc, what bemuses me is how selective people can be about which bits they question.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
visitin
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by visitin »

Spiny Norman wrote:
chownah wrote:It seems that the Buddha only slept a couple of hours a night so I think it is reasonable to at least consider the possibility that his rebirth memories might be hallucinations.
trollnah
Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
Agreed! Instructions provided in "Aparihani Sutta", if followed earnestly, will induce such hallucinations.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by chownah »

Spiny Norman wrote:
chownah wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote: Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
I think it is reasonable if you want to consider this too, but it is not so directly on topic as considering his rebirth memories.
chownah
I think it's fine to question these things, and the authenticity of the suttas, etc, what bemuses me is how selective people can be about which bits they question.
Yeah, I know what you are saying......personally, I question all of it from time to time.
chownah
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Mkoll
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Mkoll »

visitin wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
chownah wrote:It seems that the Buddha only slept a couple of hours a night so I think it is reasonable to at least consider the possibility that his rebirth memories might be hallucinations.
trollnah
Maybe his enlightenment was a hallucination too. ;)
Agreed! Instructions provided in "Aparihani Sutta", if followed earnestly, will induce such hallucinations.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Now, I know I'm unclear in what you're trying to say. :tongue:

Can you expand on that claim please?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Nikaya35
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by Nikaya35 »

There is 2 points that can be discussed in the rebirth topic. 1) are karma and rebirth part of the Buddha teachings according to the sutras? 2) do you believe in rebirth ? Or its rebirth true or not ? The answer of the first question is a very easy one. Both doctrines of karma and rebirth are part of the Buddha teachings according to the nikayas and the goal of classical buddhism is to stop the circle of literal rebirths ( samsara ). Do you believe in rebirth ? I would say yes. There isn't any empirical evidence of karma and rebirth being true. So why I believe in this? Because I have faith in the Buddha. One can't be a buddhist without any faith or confidence in the Buddha message. I don't know by direct experience the truth of karma and rebirth. The practice of buddhism like any religion is a gamble. We can't know for sure if death is the end . Atleast most of us can't. It's really ridiculous to argue using the nikayas that the Buddha doesn't teach karma and rebirth in a literal sense. The same rebirth debate is in another buddhist site . It's fine to be skeptical of karma and rebirth . It's bullshit to argue to death that both doctrines aren't part of the Buddha teachings.
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