Why are most western Buddhists white?

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daverupa
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by daverupa »

The thread is being read by the powers that be, so perhaps more will be done as time proceeds. At present I can only speak for myself: I think there is yet some space for the conversation here to seize the teachable moment.

Please breath before posting.

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  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by DNS »

Racism is not condoned or tolerated. So far there are not any racist posts in this thread. If anyone sees one, please use the 'report' function.

Simply discussing the issues or cultural differences is not racist. In fact some poc (people of color) have stated that ignoring the issues and why more poc are not attending temples is racist. See for example this recent post at our sister site from an African-American member, responding to a poster who felt it should not be discussed.
This colorblind racism only contributes to institutionalized racism by attempting to gloss over the lived experiences of poc and gender/sexual minorities with racism and sexism. Conventionally, we are not the same because we do not experience life the same. Labels have real-world, lethal consequences. To ignore the racial motivation of these consequences, as well as attempting to erase the ethnic identity of poc is just neo-racism.
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p219162

We will continue to allow a diverse set of views here on DW however certainly not any racist views or statements. If any should appear, again, please use the report function.

And now back to topic and to help dispel some stereotypes, see this nice photo:

Image

from: http://www.angryasianbuddhist.com/2013/ ... itate.html
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JeffR
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by JeffR »

Goofaholix wrote:
JeffR wrote: Ajahn Chah established Wat Pa Nanachat for Farang (whites), so those temples established under it tend to be full of white monks.
Just a point of correction, he established Wat Pa Nanachat for foreigners. Nanachat means international, not caucasian.

There have been monks of all different nationalities there aand many are not white.
Pardon me for the misleading information. Although my Thai friends refer to Wat Pa Nanachat as a temple established for Farang, and the monks I know who ordained there refer to it as established by Ajahn Chah for westerners, I do know it's formal name refers to international monastery. I have never been there and have been told it is basically all caucasion with occasional exception, the exceptions being mainly visiting monks.
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Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
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pilgrim
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by pilgrim »

1780783_603773383044021_198433903_n.jpg
1780783_603773383044021_198433903_n.jpg (95.89 KiB) Viewed 2753 times
Evidence for slack vinaya in Asian monasteries? Most definitely. The photo above was posted by the abbot of a typical rural monastery in NE India on his Facebook page. The culture is Burmese. I protested that it is against Vinaya for monks to accept money, and the picture is of new monks on the very day of their ordination. He protested that this has been their practice in their communities for ages and will not be changed.
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by Spiny Norman »

waterchan wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:And of course western Buddhism is developing it's own cultural baggage!
I don't think Western Buddhism has had enough time to develop its own cultural baggage yet. It's only, what, 80 years old?
That's plenty of time. And many of the Buddhist traditions present in the UK seem to have been designed for westerners.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Kare
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by Kare »

David N. Snyder wrote:Racism is not condoned or tolerated. So far there are not any racist posts in this thread. If anyone sees one, please use the 'report' function.

Simply discussing the issues or cultural differences is not racist.
I agree. Simply discussing the issues or cultural differences is not racist. But the title of this thread is: "Why are most western Buddhists white?" Sorting people into groups based on skin color, is not simply discussing issues of cultural differences. Sorting people according to skin color is racism. You may try to stick any fancy label on it and call it any variant of "...ology", if you like. I even see that it amuses some to do it. But it still is that old-fashioned, ugly racism.

To me, Dhamma has always been about the mind, not about the skin. I am sorry to see that the administrators of this forum have a different view.
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dhammafriend
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by dhammafriend »

Kare wrote: I agree. Simply discussing the issues or cultural differences is not racist. But the title of this thread is: "Why are most western Buddhists white?" Sorting people into groups based on skin color, is not simply discussing issues of cultural differences. Sorting people according to skin color is racism. You may try to stick any fancy label on it and call it any variant of "...ology", if you like. I even see that it amuses some to do it. But it still is that old-fashioned, ugly racism.

To me, Dhamma has always been about the mind, not about the skin. I am sorry to see that the administrators of this forum have a different view.
Hello Kare, have you ever considered that people who are not 'white' are not in a position ignore color, race etc? When black men are seen as intrinsically aggressive, black women as hyper-sexual, Asians as submissive, people relate to them based on those pre-concieved notions. So they do not have the luxury of ignoring skin color. Regardless of whether they are Buddhist or not. Buddha Dhamma is not a cart blanche for us to ignore the real world in all its ugliness. It's a tool we can use to improve ourselves, our communities and societies.

metta
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Natthi me saranam annam buddho me saranam varam
For me there is no other refuge, the Buddha is my excellent refuge.
Etena saccavajjena vaddheyyam satthu-sasane
By the utterance of this truth, may I grow in the Master’s Way.
chownah
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by chownah »

dhammafriend,
I think in some contexts some sort of discussion of these issues is possible but what should we do if someone wanted to discuss why are black men intrinsically aggressive (I shudder to even type such an ignorant idea).......should we just say that the idea is wrong and it is based in racist stereotyping and declare that for these reasons it need not be discussed?.....or should we discuss this and that aspect of it and thus give it the appearance of a legitimate question whose intricasies should be exposed and debated?

I'm glad that Kare has posted. I would like to post straight to the op to say that the topic has been framed in a racial way and as such is not suitable to discuss......maybe it would be good if you rethink what you want to discuss and pose your query in a more reasonable way...if it in fact can be asked a better way.....if not then better to forget it and do some serious thinking about the subtleties of racial prejudice.
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by DNS »

Kare wrote: To me, Dhamma has always been about the mind, not about the skin.
I agree with you, of course. Racism is about the ignorant thinking that one race is superior to another and/or the attempt to exclude certain race(s) from participation in some organization, event, etc. I don't see the OP doing that. The OP simply made an observation and was wondering what reasons there might be for that. Others including myself noted that most Western Buddhists are in fact Asian. For example in the U.S. there are some 5 to 6 million Buddhists. About 4 to 5 million of the American Buddhists are Asian ancestry, not white.

Ignoring this issue or refusing to discuss this is considered racism itself, by some. They feel that just ignoring the reasons why certain races or cultural groups are not drawn to Dhamma centers is just pushing the issue under the carpet, rather than dealing with it. It is not necessarily my view, but know that this is a view of many poc. So simply ignoring this and telling everyone that we cannot discuss this sensitive issue is not a good option. But of course we will ensure that there are no racist statements made while this discussion takes place.

There are some 'Western' Dhamma centers that have meditation sessions and retreats for poc. I have mixed feelings about this. Of course I would like to see more poc in the Dhamma and come out of suffering, but I personally don't like the segregation of races even when the intentions seem to be very good. For example, does that mean I can't meditate with my [African] wife if she attends one of those sessions? These are difficult and sensitive issues that sometimes need to be discussed . . .
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Kare
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by Kare »

I fear that as long as we accept skin color as a premise for our discourse (except, maybe, for a discourse on skin tan products ... ;) ), those abuses will not come to an end. Therefore I refuse to accept this premise.

And, if we feel the pressure of the 'majority', let the Sallekha sutta (MN8) serve as an inspiration to take a firm stand: "Others may ... we will not ..."
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waterchan
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by waterchan »

Kare wrote:I fear that as long as we accept skin color as a premise for our discourse...
Over a decade ago, one of the studies of interest in the field of psychology was why whites outperformed blacks on IQ tests by 15%, and why asians outperformed whites on IQ tests by 15%. Now these were hard facts. One of the resultant findings was that starting from primary education (i.e. age 5), mathematics was taught at a significantly faster pace in asian schools, and in many asian cultures it was considered more normal for women to pursue higher stutdies in engineering and science than in white or black communities.

These objective studies helped dispel the myths that some races were inherently more stupid than others. I feel that investigating the question of "why most Western Buddhists are white?" could lead to similar insights on Buddhism in the West. If having an objective discussion or investigation based on skin color is racism, then maybe this is the racism that leads to the end of racism, and should be encouraged.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
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culaavuso
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by culaavuso »

waterchan wrote: These objective studies helped dispel the myths that some races were inherently more stupid than others. I feel that investigating the question of "why most Western Buddhists are white?" could lead to similar insights on Buddhism in the West. If having an objective discussion or investigation based on skin color is racism, then maybe this is the racism that leads to the end of racism, and should be encouraged.
Interestingly, the study seems to have helped dispel myths by discovering that the original question was incorrectly phrased in terms of skin color. Confusion between correlation and causation seems to be a major factor in the perpetuation of racism. The result of the study mentioned seems to be that IQ results varied between schools and there happened to be a correlation between ethnicity and attendance of any particular school. Understanding that allows changes to the way that schools are run, which makes it a useful question for improving everyone's education universally. In this way the study seems to be useful by showing that the original premise that race was a direct causal factor was a faulty premise, the demonstration of which helps lead to the end of racism. A more directly useful question at the outset would have been "what makes some students perform significantly better or worse on IQ tests than others, and how can IQ test outcomes be improved?"

In this way, perhaps the OP is trying to address a useful question of "what makes some people who are interested in Western Buddhism experience difficulty in integrating themselves into existing meditation communities, and how can those barriers be eliminated without compromise to the integrity of the Dhamma?"
binocular
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by binocular »

culaavuso wrote:Interestingly, the study seems to have helped dispel myths by discovering that the original question was incorrectly phrased in terms of skin color. Confusion between correlation and causation seems to be a major factor in the perpetuation of racism. The result of the study mentioned seems to be that IQ results varied between schools and there happened to be a correlation between ethnicity and attendance of any particular school. Understanding that allows changes to the way that schools are run, which makes it a useful question for improving everyone's education universally. In this way the study seems to be useful by showing that the original premise that race was a direct causal factor was a faulty premise, the demonstration of which helps lead to the end of racism. A more directly useful question at the outset would have been "what makes some students perform significantly better or worse on IQ tests than others, and how can IQ test outcomes be improved?"
And then there is stereotype threat:
Stereotype threat is the experience of anxiety in a situation in which a person has the potential to confirm a negative stereotype about his or her social group.[1] Since its introduction into the academic literature, stereotype threat has become one of the most widely studied topics in the field of social psychology.[2] Stereotype threat has been shown to reduce the performance of individuals who belong to negatively stereotyped groups.[3] If negative stereotypes are present regarding a specific group, group members are likely to become anxious about their performance, which may hinder their ability to perform at their maximum level. For example, stereotype threat can lower the intellectual performance of African-Americans taking the SAT reasoning test used for college entrance in the United States, due to the stereotype that African-Americans are less intelligent than other groups.[4] Importantly, the individual does not need to subscribe to the stereotype for it to be activated. Moreover, the specific mechanism through which anxiety (induced by the activation of the stereotype) decreases performance is by depleting working memory (especially the phonological aspects of the working memory system).[5]

Stereotype threat is a potential contributing factor to long-standing racial and gender gaps in academic performance. It may occur whenever an individual's performance might confirm a negative stereotype because stereotype threat is thought to arise from a particular situation, rather than from an individual's personality traits or characteristics. Since most people have at least one social identity which is negatively stereotyped, most people are vulnerable to stereotype threat if they encounter a situation in which the stereotype is relevant. Situational factors that increase stereotype threat can include the difficulty of the task, the belief that the task measures their abilities, and the relevance of the stereotype to the task. Individuals show higher degrees of stereotype threat on tasks they wish to perform well on and when they identify strongly with the stereotyped group. These effects are also increased when they expect discrimination due to their identification with negatively stereotyped group.[6] Repeated experiences of stereotype threat can lead to a vicious circle of diminished confidence, poor performance, and loss of interest in the relevant area of achievement.[1]

Proponents of stereotype threat have been criticized for exaggerating the importance of stereotype threat as an explanation of real-world performance gaps[7][8] and misrepresenting evidence as more conclusive than it is.[9][10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat
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dhammafriend
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by dhammafriend »

chownah wrote:dhammafriend,
if someone wanted to discuss why are black men intrinsically aggressive (I shudder to even type such an ignorant idea).......

Sit down in the lotus postion, place a picture of your favourite Disney Princess in front of you, set your iPod to your Taylor Swift playlist. Any shudders induced by typing the words aggressive black men should subside in due course. :smile:

Seriously, there are ways to approach the topic where we all can learn from this. As long as we approach it with a bit of empathy, humility and the willingness to see ourselves in the other.

Metta
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Natthi me saranam annam buddho me saranam varam
For me there is no other refuge, the Buddha is my excellent refuge.
Etena saccavajjena vaddheyyam satthu-sasane
By the utterance of this truth, may I grow in the Master’s Way.
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Re: Why are most western Buddhists white?

Post by Goofaholix »

Kare wrote: I agree. Simply discussing the issues or cultural differences is not racist. But the title of this thread is: "Why are most western Buddhists white?" Sorting people into groups based on skin color,
The wording of the OP was poor. If it had read "Why are most Buddhists in the west european? or "Why are most Buddhists in the west caucasian? Then it would have meant the same thing that the OP was intending to ask and be less likely to offend.
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“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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