Dear people.
Can anyone tell me about bavangha? a freind of mine has experianced it during vipasana meditation. But has not got a clou what to think of it. (8.09 amsterdam, holland)
She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed. (12.02 amsterdam, holland)
Does anyone know how to treat it during vipasanameditation. She experiences it reguraly in periodes from short moments to 15 minutes and sometimes even longer. (Thursday, 6.38, amsterdam, holland)
Thanks
Marc
bhavanga
Re: bavangha
do you mean bhanga?
if your friend experrinced this she has gained a very high level of vipassana and has dispelled wrong view to a major extent.
Unfortunately there are thousands of people who are self deluded about attaining such stages.
which category she is in is anyones guess.
if your friend experrinced this she has gained a very high level of vipassana and has dispelled wrong view to a major extent.
Unfortunately there are thousands of people who are self deluded about attaining such stages.
which category she is in is anyones guess.
- purple planet
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Re: bavangha
I heared about this but not as a stage but as a feeling in meditation not as an attainment ( i know there is an insight stage that has this name) where you sit and the time passes by and you thought you were sleeping when you sat - but its very similar to sleeping during the sitting meditation so its very easy to confuse the two - i am not sure at all but it might happen when theres no defilements at a certain moment or something like that
( if i understand correct! which i probably and usually dont ! )
( if i understand correct! which i probably and usually dont ! )
Re: bavangha
No It is not bangha. She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed.
- James the Giant
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Re: bavangha
Interesting, I had that too, and the teacher said something like "bhavanga", which meant nothing to me.jajas wrote:No It is not bangha. She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed.
I sat down to meditate, focussed on the breath and then immediately I heard the bell for the end of the hour.
I was not asleep, as I slump or fall off my stool when I sleep... I was just there one minute, and the next instant it was an hour later. No resulting grogginess or confusion. If anything, I felt sharper and clearer.
Useful if there's a boring lecture I want to miss or something, but apart from that it seems like a bit of a dead end. What can you do with the ability to skip time, apart from waste your life?
Still, I'd be interested in knowing more about this bhavanga or bavanga thing.
The wiki on it is less than helpful from a practical, practise perspective.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
Re: bavangha
Interesting. Is this something beneficial? It sounds like "killing time" with a blank state where their is no wisdom developed or paramitas strengthened. Just asking, never heard about this "stage" ever before.
Get the wanting out of waiting
What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2
If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko
https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2
If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko
https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
- purple planet
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Re: bavangha
i read about this a long time ago - but where i saw it - it said its legit meditation time - even if you were not "active"
edit : guess i was wrong by reading other comments that were posted after
edit : guess i was wrong by reading other comments that were posted after
Last edited by purple planet on Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: bavangha
Oh Bhavanga.
It occurs repeatedly during deep sleep for long periods.
During the daytime it is much more intermittent.
Anyway nothing to be alarmed about.
It occurs repeatedly during deep sleep for long periods.
During the daytime it is much more intermittent.
Anyway nothing to be alarmed about.
Re: bavangha
27. Thought-Process—
The subject, the consciousness, receives objects from
within and without. When a person is in a state of profound
sleep his mind is said to be vacant, or, in other
words, in a state of Bhavaïga. We always experience such
a passive state when our minds do not respond to external
objects. This flow of Bhavaïga is interrupted when objects
enter the mind. Then the Bhavaïga consciousness
vibrates for one thought-moment and passes away.
Page 49
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
The subject, the consciousness, receives objects from
within and without. When a person is in a state of profound
sleep his mind is said to be vacant, or, in other
words, in a state of Bhavaïga. We always experience such
a passive state when our minds do not respond to external
objects. This flow of Bhavaïga is interrupted when objects
enter the mind. Then the Bhavaïga consciousness
vibrates for one thought-moment and passes away.
Page 49
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: bhavanga
Does anyone know how to treat it during vipasanameditation?
She experiences it reguraly in periodes from short moments to 15 minutes and sometimes even longer.
She experiences it reguraly in periodes from short moments to 15 minutes and sometimes even longer.
Re: bavangha
This sounds like an experience described in Jhana Not by the Numbers which is described as a form of Wrong Concentration. It is described as a result of concentration of limited range resulting from blocking out areas of awareness, rather than developing all-around awareness. If this describes the experience in question, then perhaps maintaining all-around awareness rather than completely focusing in on a single point would remove the necessary conditions.James the Giant wrote: I sat down to meditate, focussed on the breath and then immediately I heard the bell for the end of the hour.
I was not asleep, as I slump or fall off my stool when I sleep... I was just there one minute, and the next instant it was an hour later. No resulting grogginess or confusion. If anything, I felt sharper and clearer.
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote: The second state was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed, and so refined that it refused settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all — although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn't been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also "program" myself to come out at a particular time.
After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. But it does have other uses." He then told me of the time he had undergone kidney surgery and, not trusting the anesthesiologist, had put himself in that state for the duration of the operation.
In both these states of wrong concentration, the limited range of awareness was what made them wrong. If whole areas of your awareness are blocked off, how can you gain all-around insight? And as I've noticed in years since, people adept at blotting out large areas of awareness through powerful one-pointedness also tend to be psychologically adept at dissociation and denial. This is why Ajaan Fuang, following Ajaan Lee, taught a form of breath meditation that aimed at an all-around awareness of the breath energy throughout the body, playing with it to gain a sense of ease, and then calming it so that it wouldn't interfere with a clear vision of the subtle movements of the mind. This all-around awareness helped to eliminate the blind spots where ignorance likes to lurk.
- purple planet
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Re: bhavanga
so how to avoid entering that state when doing mahsi style meditation ?
Re: bhavanga
if you are hitting this kind of 'non-perception' state often - then try opening your eyes and meditating.
with your eyes open - pay attention to your palms and finger tips continuously and at the same time be aware of your breath also (you can try to do the same with the toes and soles also). this prevents you from getting into the 'non-perception' state and also improves your meditation.
with your eyes open - pay attention to your palms and finger tips continuously and at the same time be aware of your breath also (you can try to do the same with the toes and soles also). this prevents you from getting into the 'non-perception' state and also improves your meditation.