Eightfolder wrote:I found Bhikkhu Bodhi's article interesting and extremely persuasive but I have ideas of my own about our place in this universe. To see ourselves not as particles but part of a wave is a wonderful metaphor but in the daily business of living we are each accountable for our individual actions. In a constitutional republic or a democracy we have a set of principles and laws that are suppose to govern our actions. We have religions that preach morality with a threat/reward system (hell/heaven) to guide our actions.
Individual labels are useful for talking about the world and behaving in the world, but that doesn't mean that just because we put a label on something that it has its own independent existence. A specific fire can be labeled, but that doesn't make the fire any less of a process. A specific wave can be labeled, but that doesn't make the wave a "thing" rather than a process. The label could be useful, however, when trying to direct someone to put out the most dangerous fire in the forest first, or when trying to point someone to a wave that will crush them if they don't take action to avoid it. Individuals interact on the basis of laws and waves each individually encounter waveguides and wave breaks and deal with the consequences as individual waves. Labels are useful approximations that function as tools for accomplishing goals related to those labels, but this does not mean the labels represent absolute truth. Whether you decide to apply a label or not depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Hammers are useful, but they don't serve every purpose. Labels of individuality are similarly useful in some situations, and not in others. The Vinaya uses the tool of labeling individuals, so the notion of these labels is not entirely foreign to the Dhamma and Vinaya.
Eightfolder wrote:
Gotoma was said to have said that he "knows" there are other realms of existence although he had not gone to them. Why would such an assertion be made by someone whose every other word seems to rest on a systematic, empirical analysis of the accuracy of the mind?
It doesn't seem that worrying about what someone was said to have said or why they might have said the thing if they said what they're said to have said is really helpful in putting an end to stress and suffering. The suttas in many places quote the Buddha as saying that all he teaches is covered by the four noble truths. Wondering what was said or why only creates doubt and uncertainty without any benefits. If it's impossible to ever definitively answer the question either way, then the answer must not really matter. If the answer really mattered, then there would be a way to discern the answer through personal experience.
Darrell Huff wrote:
A difference is a difference only if it makes a difference
MN 63
MN 63: Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta wrote:
So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared. And what is undeclared by me? 'The cosmos is eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is not eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is finite'... 'The cosmos is infinite'... 'The soul & the body are the same'... 'The soul is one thing and the body another'... 'After death a Tathagata exists'... 'After death a Tathagata does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' is undeclared by me.
And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me.
And what is declared by me? 'This is stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the origination of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. And why are they declared by me? Because they are connected with the goal, are fundamental to the holy life. They lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are declared by me.