Please explain how there is no ultimate entity?

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suttametta
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: Please explain how there is no ultimate entity?

Post by suttametta »

silver surfer wrote:Hi, just registered - this being my first thread i'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

I'm new to Buddhism, for like a month old. I'm getting an understanding that -all is mind-, and a human being has to "blow out" in order to liberate its own consciousness.

I've learned that the Buddha was sort of against all sorts of philosophies and ideas, because they might not be of truth (am i right on that?) and after one's enlightenment, they won't have the need to ask any more questions about the physical existence and/or concepts>human perceptions that are within the physical existence.

I understand this like, there is no more thinking after the nibbãna since ideas are no more needed - thus no more speculation about where it all began.

But mathematically speaking, 0+0 will always equal to another zero. I'm not so sure that someone as smart as Gautama didn't ever think about this. So, saying there is no ultimate entity - means we (our consciousness) are the ultimate (eternal) entities. What i don't understand is, why would we get our absolute-selves in this cyclical everchanging flux of illusions, if we have always been the absolute existence? I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

I'd also like to hear your opinions on the geometrical patterns in the physical existence. Phi (the golden ratio), the Fibonacci sequence (and the spiral), other mathematical systems that make the universe as it is, using particles/waves, et cetera. Are all these also products of our illusionary minds? How is that? Also, what do you think about the existence of the void, and how our consciousness became involved with it in the first place and what was the reason?

My final question is, what makes the laws of the karmic wheel? Why do they exist? What is responsible for it? Our consciousness? Since when, and why?

I'll appreciate if i can get a few detailed responses, from all of you and i'm really looking forward to read the "enlightened" ones - if there's any.

Thank you
The Buddha did not entertain metaphysical speculations. There is no "ultimate entity" because none can be found, period. This does not imply an eternal consciousness. There is no "absoluteness." "Ultimate reality" is understood to be the five aggregates. Nirvana is the cessation of these. Nirvana was not "there all along." It is not your "original mind," as many speculate through various reasonings. Nirvana arises due to the path. This is why it is called wisdom and not a soul.
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Mkoll
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Re: Please explain how there is no ultimate entity?

Post by Mkoll »

suttametta wrote:Nirvana arises due to the path.
Just to make it clear, it's not a matter of cause-effect here like it may sound reading your words. The path doesn't "cause" Nibbana. Nibbana is unconditioned and permanent which means it doesn't arise or pass away. The path is fabricated and conditioned. There are suttas supporting my last two sentences but I'm too lazy to dig them out.

But this is semantics and maybe you already knew this but didn't make it clear in your wording. Or maybe you have another idea? I'd be interested to hear it.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
suttametta
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: Please explain how there is no ultimate entity?

Post by suttametta »

Mkoll wrote:
suttametta wrote:Nirvana arises due to the path.
Just to make it clear, it's not a matter of cause-effect here like it may sound reading your words. The path doesn't "cause" Nibbana. Nibbana is unconditioned and permanent which means it doesn't arise or pass away. The path is fabricated and conditioned. There are suttas supporting my last two sentences but I'm too lazy to dig them out.

But this is semantics and maybe you already knew this but didn't make it clear in your wording. Or maybe you have another idea? I'd be interested to hear it.
Of course nibbana is unconditioned, but without the path, one will never realize it. So for practical purposes, nibbana arises (for the practitioner) from transcendent dependent arising as a fruit. -Upanisa Sutta. Buddha always describes the path practices in this way: as great benefit, great fruit for oneself and for the world.
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