W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dhamma

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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pulga
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by pulga » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:12 pm

vishuroshan wrote:Dear Friends,

buddha came to this world to teach prestine dhamma path. those who work little will go to heaven. others who have completed reach NIBBANA. and in very few suttas, you will fin that buddha has given discourses about DEVAS and their life span and facilities..etc. but it does nt mean that he came to send people to heaven or Brahma world. everyone cannot understand this dhamma. so he must have adviced those people to go to higher realms rather than going down to hell. please visit the following link. you can download the PDF.

http://www.pathtonibbana.com
Thank you for the link.

What about those who aspire to learn the Dhamma from Maithree Bodhisattva himself? In the Suttas the Buddha is able to bring about the rising of the dhammacakkhu in someone through a simple sermon after a meal, e.g. the Upālisutta or the Brahmāyusutta while in the world today there are those who devote their entire lives to achieving such a view, and more often than not fail in the attempt. For some an auspicious rebirth at the time when Maithree Bodhisattva teaches the Dhamma holds out more promise than blindly grasping for a glimpse of enlightenment.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't follow the Eightfold Path to the best of our abilities, only that a good rebirth might play into a strategy of becoming enlightened, and liberated.
Last edited by pulga on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mkoll
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Mkoll » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:07 pm

pulga wrote:I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't follow the Eightfold Path to the best of our abilities, only that a good rebirth might play into a strategy of becoming enlightened, and liberated.
I wholeheartedly agree with this and I think that the suttas definitely support this. One example is the beginning of Itivuttaka 22:
This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Monks, don't be afraid of acts of merit. This is another way of saying what is blissful, desirable, pleasing, endearing, charming — i.e., acts of merit. I am cognizant that, having long performed meritorious deeds, I long experienced desirable, pleasing, endearing, charming results.
You've got to kamma before you can end kamma! :tongue:

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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clw_uk
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by clw_uk » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:23 pm

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't follow the Eightfold Path to the best of our abilities, only that a good rebirth might play into a strategy of becoming enlightened, and liberated.

OR you could see things as they are?

Aiming for a "better rebirth", sounds like mahayana to me :meditate:
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clw_uk
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by clw_uk » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:26 pm

Dear Friends,

buddha came to this world to teach prestine dhamma path. those who work little will go to heaven. others who have completed reach NIBBANA. and in very few suttas, you will fin that buddha has given discourses about DEVAS and their life span and facilities..etc. but it does nt mean that he came to send people to heaven or Brahma world. everyone cannot understand this dhamma. so he must have adviced those people to go to higher realms rather than going down to hell. please visit the following link. you can download the PDF.
And when he talked about nagas, implied the world being flat with a big mountain in the middle, spirits in trees etc?

Are these real?
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Dinsdale
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:54 am

clw_uk wrote: And when he talked about nagas, implied the world being flat with a big mountain in the middle, spirits in trees etc?
We now know the earth is round. On the other 2 we have no way of knowing either way. :tongue:
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Aloka
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Aloka » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:09 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
clw_uk wrote: And when he talked about nagas, implied the world being flat with a big mountain in the middle, spirits in trees etc?
We now know the earth is round. On the other 2 we have no way of knowing either way. :tongue:


Image
Wut ?
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clw_uk
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by clw_uk » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:29 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
clw_uk wrote: And when he talked about nagas, implied the world being flat with a big mountain in the middle, spirits in trees etc?
We now know the earth is round. On the other 2 we have no way of knowing either way. :tongue:

Some forms of scepticism would say that we could not know the first either :spy:

Maybe I'm a tree in the matrix :jumping: :sage:


On a serious note though, how does someone who uses a literal understanding of the other realms/beings etc in the suttas seperate the Nagas, tree spirits etc from "rebirth" and the hungry shade's, hell beings etc?
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Dinsdale
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:11 pm

clw_uk wrote: On a serious note though, how does someone who uses a literal understanding of the other realms/beings etc in the suttas seperate the Nagas, tree spirits etc from "rebirth" and the hungry shade's, hell beings etc?
By being agnostic about all of it. There is really no need to adopt a position of belief / disbelief, it's all just opinion anyway.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by clw_uk » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:43 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
clw_uk wrote: On a serious note though, how does someone who uses a literal understanding of the other realms/beings etc in the suttas seperate the Nagas, tree spirits etc from "rebirth" and the hungry shade's, hell beings etc?
By being agnostic about all of it. There is really no need to adopt a position of belief / disbelief, it's all just opinion anyway.


I agree :)

Thats twice in one day, we are on a roll lol :smile: :console: :jumping:

Personally I take a harder stance on nagas, tree spirits etc and personally think they were added later to give the suttas some flavour, as people back then seemed to be more impressed by supernatural tales etc. Also they don't help me in anyway in getting past dukkha and so I find them useless to believe in.



That being said if nagas were shown to exist, I'd have no issue. However the discovery wouldnt really change my life in any way or help me practice Dhamma, I would just be surprised.


Out of interest spinny, do you view the "psychic powers" the same way as well?
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Dinsdale
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:45 am

clw_uk wrote: Out of interest spinny, do you view the "psychic powers" the same way as well?
Yes. I've had experiences I can't easily explain so I keep an open mind about it.
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Alex123 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:34 pm

Shaswata_Panja wrote:This is the general refrain that I get from Western Buddhism/Consensus Buddhism...It is more interested in asserting that its practice is based on atheism and thereby engendering a worldview tinged with negativity , rather than asserting that its worldview bases itself off the very rich philosophy and metaphysics provided for by the Dhamma

What is wrong with atheism?

What is wrong with modern scientific "materialism" which gave you internet, computer and keyboard to type this on?

Why should we believe everything that ancient philosopher/s has said just because "it is ancient wisdom" ? I've read that despite being great thinkers, Aristotle and Plato believed that lungs produced wind to cool down the body. Or that in ancient world people didn't know about the brain and nervous system. In VsM it talks about that thoughts occur in the heart and by seeing the color of blood in heart cavity one can read the mind. :rolleye: . I do believe that there are lots of kernles of truth in VsM and suttas. But not everything. It seems that the Buddha or any religious prophet didn't teach something beyond the knowledge level of those times. Some take ancient prophecies seriously. But why none of them talk about ipods, iphones, internet, computers, democracy, submarines, electricity etc? Why does the future prophecies or account of past lives that happened millions of years ago seem to be too similar to India where the Buddha lived? Past names of former Buddha's seemed to be Indian and so were the circumstances....


We do not even have concrete proof that Buddha as historical person even existed, and if He did that he was fully awakened, and if the before is true that the suttas accurately passed down his teaching. I believe that we need to take into account the psychological teaching of modern realized masters such as Ajahn Chah, etc...
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:35 pm

^^^^^^ your post is one of the best I have read here..I am not against atheism per se...I myself am more of a materialist atheist..it's just that W.Buddhism takes more inspiration from Materialist ateism than Hardcore Buddhadharma...but other than that...I am totally totally aree what you say.....Nobody.not even Buddha, can transcend his era...something along those lines was also said by the philosopher and later president Dr.Radhakrishnan----all spiritual leaders seemed to have been heavily limited by the geography and knowledge of their respective era...I find it incredulous to believe the historicity of the earlier Buddhas, given the time span involved.

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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:40 pm

Alex123 wrote: I believe that we need to take into account the psychological teaching of modern realized masters such as Ajahn Chah, etc...
I respect Ajahn Chah as a teacher, but how do you know he is "realised", and how do you his teachings are authentic in relation to the suttas?
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:41 pm

Alex123 wrote:What is wrong with atheism?
Nothing, provided one doesn't get too caught up in it. ;)
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by visitin » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:11 pm

Shaswata_Panja wrote:Nobody.not even Buddha, can transcend his era...something along those lines was also said by the philosopher and later president Dr.Radhakrishnan----all spiritual leaders seemed to have been heavily limited by the geography and knowledge of their respective era...I find it incredulous to believe the historicity of the earlier Buddhas, given the time span involved.
yeah! but veda can transcend all the eras, right? Gotta love the fundamentalists.

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