I wasn't writing your post. I was trying get a handle on what you do and do not know about the Buddha's teaching. I have seen enough.curiosity wrote:How do you deny the existence of separate "experiencers"?
Are we all not experiencing different things?
I didn't write your posts, you didn't write mine, my questions are not popping into your head and vice versa.
So we are separate on that basis alone, this is undeniable.
I'd rather be reborn
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Re: I'd rather be reborn
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: I'd rather be reborn
Why do you have these questions?
Why do you need to know if "nature/reality/time" is cyclical?
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
N.B. The second to third questions are posts that "Curiosity" has started him/herself, the rest are from my engagement with said person
Why do you need to know if "nature/reality/time" is cyclical?
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
N.B. The second to third questions are posts that "Curiosity" has started him/herself, the rest are from my engagement with said person
Last edited by clw_uk on Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
That isnt denial though is itYou did, when I used the term "experiencer," responded with "Who?"

If I denied a person then yes, but I didnt say no-self I aimed at not-selfIs that not denial of the existence of an experiencer?
There is a difference

Maybe?
Did you write my posts or did you not?
You seem to lack any healthy degree of skepticism when it comes to the Sutta.




I'm going to go out on a limb here but I'm going to assume I know a lot more about scepticism than you do

Aggripa, Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta, Sextus Empricicus, Carneades et al
It's interesting to see you read my mind as well with such childish statements like this "You seem to lack any healthy degree of skepticism when it comes to the Sutta."
No im askingCraig - Who are you? Please show who you are?
Being facetious again?
Who are you? Please show who you are?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
For someone who is trying to be logical, you are failingWhy do you take everything written in a Sutta as a fact without question?

How do you know that I suscribe to rebirth, spirits in trees, nagas and devas, all found in the pali canon?
Maybe thats your illogical idea of what Buddhists are
Generalisations are hardly ever accurate
No, so where do you stand nowIf Buddha told you that there is a flying spaghetti monster made out of jelly beans living and dancing in your eyeball, would you believe him?

Because as a Buddhist I dont care about materialism, scepticism or jesus loversWhy do you find it acceptable to evade every question with either "who" "what" "why" or "it's pointless"?
Only Dukkha
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
You also didnt answer why
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
Also, if you are a true sceptic ( which you seem to try to be), you should doubt your own position
After all true scepticism is about collapsing in of itself and inducing Ataraxia
After all true scepticism is about collapsing in of itself and inducing Ataraxia
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
I see the evasion flows freely from you.
I'll ask again:
If there is no experiencer, then how is Dhamma experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then how is rebirth experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then how is Nirvana experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then who/what is experiencing your frustration? I'm not experiencing it, you (as a separate identity) are.
How do you deny the separateness of experiencers when we are experiencing different things?
Now now babes, lets play fair
I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine

So answer this first
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
and i will then answer
If there is no experiencer, then how is Dhamma experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then how is rebirth experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then how is Nirvana experienced?
If there is no experiencer, then who/what is experiencing your frustration? I'm not experiencing it, you (as a separate identity) are.
How do you deny the separateness of experiencers when we are experiencing different things?
Give and take

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
curiosity wrote:What is this position that you believe I hold?clw_uk wrote:Also, if you are a true sceptic ( which you seem to try to be), you should doubt your own position
After all true scepticism is about collapsing in of itself and inducing Ataraxia
I am merely poking holes in yours
I believe that you are sceptical, interested in Buddhism but curious and so you have problems with Buddhist metaphysics (as its generally understood) which I actually respect
Hence all your topic's revolving around self, life after death and metaphysics
Yet I might be wrong

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I'd rather be reborn
I have already answered:
I am curious and enjoy learning.
Why am I curious about these topics in particular?
They remain unanswered, and aren't readily answerable by physical observation.
Ah so the olive branch was offered and then rejected
IF you are really interested in learning then you would have answered my questions, I would have answered yours and something constructive could have been born
Instead you retreated into nebulous childishness
HmmI am not any more interested in Buddhism
than it offers more rational half-explanations about unanswerable questions than do other religions; almost to the point where I wouldn't consider it a religion, but a science, if it weren't so evasive (although still less so than other religions).
Well it depends on how you define "religion"
After all certain forms of Marxism can be considered a religion

Its not evasisve as such, just to the point
A subtle difference, but a difference nether the less

Im afraid that is all you have doneThus far your only retort has been to evade the holes rather than fill them.
In what way?Based on the Sutta's I've read, it seems even Buddha won't be able to patch you back up (he'll just tell you to ignore them in an attempt to save you the stress of having irreparable holes).
And please dont duck, its beneath you
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
Once again
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
Why do you want to know "How many spirits are out there, and how/why are they created?"
Why do you want to know what happens to you after death?
Why do you rely on notions of existence or non-existence?
Why do you speculate?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
They remain unanswered, and aren't readily answerable by physical observation.
So how would you answer these questions?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
Yet you will not engage in rational debateI am curious and enjoy learning.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Re: I'd rather be reborn
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Last edited by curiosity on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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