The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.
As far as I understand Buddhist Metaphysics postulates an eternal mind or consciousness that moves from birth to birth. Not a soul, because it doesn't have some essential, intrinsic property but still something not tied to matter. Is this wrong?
Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
- James the Giant
- Posts: 791
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
There is no eternal mind or conciousness that moves from body to body.
That is a basic and serious misconception you need to clarify before getting into this discussion.
That is a basic and serious misconception you need to clarify before getting into this discussion.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
the buddha's teaching and instructions to free one from suffering are so simple and complete.AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.
the are all contained in the suttas and that really is all you need.
if you aren't sure about someone's philosophy and you are a buddhist, I urge you to read the kalama sutta.
so why bother too much with modern day theories, scientific research, philosophies and other "whatever-ism" that merely serves to keep us intellectually occupied but spiritually empty?
perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?AJungianIdeal wrote: ... Is this wrong?
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the bodykhlawng wrote:the buddha's teaching and instructions to free one from suffering are so simple and complete.AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.
the are all contained in the suttas and that really is all you need.
if you aren't sure about someone's philosophy and you are a buddhist, I urge you to read the kalama sutta.
so why bother too much with modern day theories, scientific research, philosophies and other "whatever-ism" that merely serves to keep us intellectually occupied but spiritually empty?
perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?AJungianIdeal wrote: ... Is this wrong?
If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist
You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them
- Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
Yes, DNA = Do not askAJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?
If you ask what gets transferred then you're probably clinging to a self-view of some kind.
Life is a process, not a person or a living being. It behaves more like a wave than a particle.
If someone asks, “What got transferred from Indonesia to Sri Lanka after the Boxing-day Tsunami?” we can reply, “Energy got transferred,” but the water didn't get transferred, nor even the waves. A wave is a continually changing, observable phenomenon that results from the transfer of energy. No wave remains the same even for an instant.
Kamma, or volitional actions by body, speech, and thought are energy, which gives results when the conditions are ripe.
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
may i ask how have you come to this conclusion base on what i said in the post above?Shaswata_Panja wrote:
What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the body
permanently?Shaswata_Panja wrote: If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist
It is a non-essential question. at least to me.Shaswata_Panja wrote: You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them
Its like you are rushing through a thick and dangerous jungle with specific instructions on how to get to the next village without falling into traps or running into bandits only to be waylaid when you pass a pile of dung to stop, look and examine it and wasting time pondering if it belongs to a cow or elephant.
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
well said BhanteBhikkhu Pesala wrote:Yes, DNA = Do not askAJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......
Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......
Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
this model works for buddhism; whichever factors ultimately turn out to be at play, buddhism simply says the factors recur.AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
Nice answer. Thank you.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Yes, DNA = Do not askAJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?
If you ask what gets transferred then you're probably clinging to a self-view of some kind.
Life is a process, not a person or a living being. It behaves more like a wave than a particle.
If someone asks, “What got transferred from Indonesia to Sri Lanka after the Boxing-day Tsunami?” we can reply, “Energy got transferred,” but the water didn't get transferred, nor even the waves. A wave is a continually changing, observable phenomenon that results from the transfer of energy. No wave remains the same even for an instant.
Kamma, or volitional actions by body, speech, and thought are energy, which gives results when the conditions are ripe.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
khlawng wrote:may i ask how have you come to this conclusion base on what i said in the post above?Shaswata_Panja wrote:
What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the body
permanently?Shaswata_Panja wrote: If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist
It is a non-essential question. at least to me.Shaswata_Panja wrote: You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them
Its like you are rushing through a thick and dangerous jungle with specific instructions on how to get to the next village without falling into traps or running into bandits only to be waylaid when you pass a pile of dung to stop, look and examine it and wasting time pondering if it belongs to a cow or elephant.
very good analogy and answer --thank you
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
Some info:
The Problems of Life
Who? Whence? Whither? Why? What? are some important problems
that affect all humanity.
Page 530:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
The Problems of Life
Who? Whence? Whither? Why? What? are some important problems
that affect all humanity.
Page 530:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
Yet there would still be suffering here and now ...If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?
I suppose that makes sense.suttametta wrote:this model works for buddhism; whichever factors ultimately turn out to be at play, buddhism simply says the factors recur.AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter.