Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

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Mkoll
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Mkoll » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:50 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Why would drinking alcohol lead to car accidents?

Driving a car is a relatively simple task, that most can do without accidents. However, add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation and the risks increase significantly.

Controlling the mind is a difficult task, that most cannot do without accidents. Add even a small amount of alcohol to the equation, let alone frequent and habitual use, and the chances of controlling the mind diminish exponentially.

There are other forms of intoxication, which are equally dangerous, or even more dangerous — fame, power, pride, etc. Alcohol taken frequently and habitually will destroy any sense of urgency regarding the spiritual quest, quite apart from the actual physical harm to one's health.

The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.
:goodpost:

Thank you Bhante, very well put. I like the comparison you drew between driving and mental training.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:13 pm

Please find the link where it says in Noble Eightfold Path (NEP) that taking intoxicant is bad.

They are called Virati, abstinences. They are Sammāvācā
(right speech), Sammā-kammanta (right action) and
Sammā-ājīva (right livelihood). You are very familiar with
these three mental factors because they are included in the
eight factors of the Noble Path.
“Abstinence by undertaking precepts is the abstinence
from evil deeds because one has undertaken to observe
precepts, for example, the five precepts of abstaining from
killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, and
intoxicants.”

Page: 289
http://buddhispano.net/sites/default/fi ... dies-I.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

zamotcr
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by zamotcr » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:01 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
zamotcr wrote:I don't see how moderate wine or beer, can lead you to hell. Makes absolutely no sense.
That's not what the Buddha said, and it's not what I quoted him as saying, is it?
“Monks, drinking intoxicants, if done frequently or habitually, leads to rebirth in hell, rebirth as an animal or as a hungry ghost. At the very least, the result of this evil deed when born as a human being is that one becomes a mad person.”
As for one glass of wine not affecting your driving, you should check up on the facts.
  • Any alcohol, even a small drink, will impair driving ability.
  • Alcohol takes effect quickly but wears off slowly.
  • The only safe course is not to drink and drive.
  • Alcohol is quickly absorbed into the bloodstream, affecting the brain and impairing driving ability.
Thanks Bhante, I didnt read the quote from the Buddha.

What I was trying to said before is not that drinking alcohol is good, because it is not. Some studies suggest wine is good to the heart, but Buddha said that to the mind is not good.
What I was saying is that alcohol, by itself, is just a thing, like a rock, like water or a knife, neither good or bad, but the effects of consuming alcohol could lead us to make bad actions, and such actions could deliver us to hell, but not just the alcohol. Because, if someone depends upon a medicine, that has alcohol as one of the ingredients, I won't believe that person will reborn in hell, because his intentions are different than just drinking booze. So in this sense, as I believe things are neutral, neither good or bad, what make something bad or good are our intentions when using those things, but things are just that things.

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:14 am

Surprisingly Bhikkhu Bodhi is silent about consumption of intoxicants in his NEP:

Right Action (samma kammanta)
Right action means refraining from unwholesome deeds that occur with the body as their natural means of expression. The pivotal element in this path factor is the mental factor of abstinence, but because this abstinence applies to actions performed through the body, it is called “right action.” The Buddha mentions three components of right action: abstaining from taking life, abstaining from taking what is not given, and abstaining from sexual misconduct.

Page 49:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/noble8path6.pdf
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by santa100 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:37 am

Ven. Bodhi's unequivocal position on drinking: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ay_36.html

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:13 am

Thanks Santa.

This is very interesting article which relate to my OP.
The monk I mentioned in the OP was talking about Buddha Sasana (this was the theme of his sermon) and said that consuming alcohol was not dealt by Buddha.

See what Bhikkhu Bodhi said about this:

To do so (not to consume alcohol) is also part of our personal responsibility for preserving the Buddha's Sasana. (last paragraph)
:namaste:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by santa100 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:24 am

No problem SarathW. The next time any monk's talk seems questionable, simply remember what Ven. Pesala had said earlier on this thread:
The early Saṅgha were all Noble Ones who knew without being told that sexual intercourse, using money, drinking intoxicants, wrong-livelihood, etc., were unsuitable for one gone forth as a recluse (see the Upakkilesa Sutta, Book of Fours). It was only later, when men with inferior perfections, or with ulterior motives, joined the Saṅgha that rules needed to be laid down and only after transgressions had been made.
..and we ARE ~ 2,500 years later, so..

vishuroshan
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by vishuroshan » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:31 am

Dear sarath,

CUNDA KAMMARAPUTTA SUTTA

Unskillful Bodily Action
"And how is one made impure in three ways by bodily action? There is the case where a certain person takes life, is a hunter, bloody-handed, devoted to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings. He takes what is not given. He takes, in the manner of a thief, things in a village or a wilderness that belong to others and have not been given by them. He engages in sensual misconduct. He gets sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man. This is how one is made impure in three ways by bodily action.

vishuroshan
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by vishuroshan » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:01 am

i need to mention somthing here. Sarath has seen only this part of the DHAMMA. you have not taken the message after listening to the whole dhamma discussion. VEN.VAJIRA BUDDHI didnt want to talke about Alcohol only and encourage people for it. by talking about that topic, he adviced us not add /remove any percept if buddha has not mentioned it in the original deshana(lecture). just like eating meats. we have added it n its not in buddha's deshana. VEN.VAJIRA BUDDHI's dehsana is about developing SILA/SAMADHI/PRAGNA.

with metta
viran

zamotcr
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by zamotcr » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:45 pm

The best for us, the disciples of the Buddha is to avoid alcohol and drugs that could make us do bad things and therefore create bad kamma to us.

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Sati1
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Sati1 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:46 pm

A short personal story on the topic: In the social circles that I hang out in, a glass of wine or beer (or more) on a night out is pretty much the norm, and I've lived by that lifestyle ever since I reached the drinking age 14 years ago. I have considered giving up drinking for a few months now and decided to go slowly at this challenge this year, by first taking a 3-month complete alcohol fast, just to test what it's like not to drink at all. What I have recognized so far is that only by not drinking any alcohol whatsoever I can trust my mind completely. And if I want to be serious about understanding the workings of my mind and eventually uproot even the most subtle defilements, hindrances and cravings, I must develop a lifestyle that enables me to maintain a lucid and perfectly aware mind at all times. In addition, if I'm serious about my daily morning meditation sessions, I must create conditions in which the mind is operating at its highest potential for maximal clarity and power of concentration in every session. So if I'm completely honest with myself and with my commitment to this Path, I have to confess that the reasons for giving up drinking clearly outweigh those of not doing it (not even mentioning the arguments about kamma and what Buddha himself said, as discussed on earlier posts).

Nevertheless, I must confess that I am hesitant to give up drinking forever, since the social challenges appear daunting (eg at a friend's wedding or bachelor party). On the other hand, something tells me that dealing with those challenges will present a number of useful insights in its own right (eg about the ego, about attachment to the opinions of others, about the nature of my friendships, etc).
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

vishuroshan
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by vishuroshan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:30 am

i kindly request you to not to add percepts which buddha has not included in suttas. dear sarath pls note that the FIVE PERCEPTS came from BRAHMANA PEOPLE its not a buddha deshana. dot talk about 5 percepts when there are 7 percepts in total. occasianal drinker who takes a little amount of alcohol will not go to hell. then whats the difference?is it the alcohol percentage? im not saying that people shoul drink. we should not. but still its not a PAPA(evil deed).

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cooran
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by cooran » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:14 am

Hello all,

A good short article by Ven. Dhammika with two quotes from the Buddha against the consumption of alcohol:

The Fifth Precept
http://sdhammika.blogspot.com.au/2009/0 ... ecept.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:17 am

Dear Viran
I have provided you ample evidence to support my point.
This is not the first time I brought up this matter in this forum.
I first brought up this to clarify the attainment of Sotapana.

It is mandatory that a Sotapana observe the five precepts.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14256
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:27 am

Hi Cooran
Thanks for the link. This is the first time I learn the real meaning of this precept.
By the way, similar rock carving (the picture of the lovers) will find in Dambulla temple in Sri Lanka!
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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