A hindrance is called a hindrance because it's function is to hinder. It hinders the arising of jhana. Always. The fact that a hindrance is dependently arisen means it doesn't necessarily have to arise. When this is, that is. When this isn't, that isn't.tiltbillings wrote:However, if a hinderance does not have a set unchanging nature, it does not necessarily have to hinder anything.
If a hinderance always hindered, you would never get free of it.
One can certainly train to be mindful of lust as it arises. But this doesn't change the fact that lust hinders the arising of jhana. And none of this changes the fact that indulging in a sensual pleasure like masturbation is not the same thing as being mindful of sensual desire when it arises. Rather I would say the former obstructs the latter."Herein, monks, a monk knows the consciousness with lust, as with lust."
If one wants to claim otherwise, then I would think it is on that person to differentiate their view from the pernicious view of Arittha Formerly-of-the-Vulture-Killers in MN 22.
"The Blessed One said to him, "Is it true, Arittha, that this pernicious viewpoint has arisen in you — 'As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, those acts the Blessed One says are obstructive, when indulged in, are not genuine obstructions'?"
"Yes, indeed, lord. I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, and those acts the Blessed One says are obstructive, when indulged in are not genuine obstructions."
"Worthless man, from whom have you understood that Dhamma taught by me in such a way? Worthless man, haven't I in many ways described obstructive acts? And when indulged in they are genuine obstructions. I have said that sensual pleasures are of little satisfaction, much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. I have compared sensual pleasures to a chain of bones: of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. I have compared sensual pleasures to a lump of flesh... a grass torch... a pit of glowing embers... a dream... borrowed goods... the fruits of a tree... a butcher's ax and chopping block... swords and spears... a snake' head: of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. But you, worthless man, through your own wrong grasp [of the Dhamma], have both misrepresented us as well as injuring yourself and accumulating much demerit for yourself, for that will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."
That said, I believe tilt left the topic of this thread some time ago and that is causing confusion. Considering the OP never came back after their first post perhaps it doesn't matter if the thread wanders. Still, it would be nice if tilt would state clearly if he was changing the focus of the conversation.