masturbation what's wrong?

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kc2dpt
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by kc2dpt »

44 posts and 3 days later and the OP hasn't come by to clarify their question. Glad I didn't waste time with it. Sorry to see you fine folks getting yourselves tied in knots over what you think they might have been asking. :(
- Peter

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Dhammakid
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammakid »

I see that happening quite often on discussion boards. Oh well, nothing wrong with a good conversation.

:anjali:
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Ben
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Ben »

Hi Peter
Peter wrote:44 posts and 3 days later and the OP hasn't come by to clarify their question. Glad I didn't waste time with it. Sorry to see you fine folks getting yourselves tied in knots over what you think they might have been asking. :(
No knots tied or untied!
Kind regards

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BlackBird
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by BlackBird »

Here's the facts:

- Masturbation is built upon Sensual desire. Good luck having a beat while considering how best to mow the lawn and hang out the washing.
- Sensual desire is a hinderance to practise.
- Kamma-Vipaka has it that a volitional action in the present will have an effect in the future. This is how habits are formed.

Nobody is going to burn in hell for having a beat, nor for having appropriate sexual relations with their partner - But it doesn't lead to Nibbana. Sensual desire is a hinderance.

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

BlackBird wrote: - Sensual desire is a hinderance to practise.
It may be a hindrance, but that does not mean it has to hinder anything.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by puthujjana »

Dhammabodhi wrote:Hi, sorry if I'm going off-topic a little here, but I have a question regarding sexual fantasies in dreams and involuntary nocturnal emissions. I'd like to know what Buddhist scriptures have said about this(if at all) for someone who is completely abstaining from the point of view of ethics and Sila, but the thing I'm more interested to know is how do monks(or anyone else who's keeping the relevant precepts) deal with it and whether there are techniques to reduce or eradicate this problem?
Hi Dhammabodhi,

this is the first Saṅghādisesa rule:
Intentional emission of semen, except while dreaming, entails initial and subsequent meetings of the Community.

You can read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's explanation of it in chapter five of Buddhist Monastic Code I: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .ch05.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Macavity
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Macavity »

tiltbillings wrote:
BlackBird wrote: - Sensual desire is a hinderance to practise.
It may be a hindrance, but that does not mean it has to hinder anything.
That doesn't sound right to me. If it's a hindrance then surely by definition it must hinder something. In the Nivaranasutta, SN. v. 97, the Buddha says of the five hindrances that they are "Makers of blindness, causing lack of vision, causing lack of knowledge, detrimental to wisdom, tending to vexation, leading away from Nibbana."

I take this to mean that hindering is an intrinsic property of the hindrances. 'Makers of blindness' is what the hindrances actually are, not something they might be. 'Leading away from Nibbana' is what the hindrances actually do, not something they might do.

How do you understand the passage?
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

What is the nature of a hindrance?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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cooran
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by cooran »

Exactly what do you mean by "nature"?

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

sabhava.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Macavity
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Macavity »

tiltbillings wrote:What is the nature of a hindrance?
In the case of sensual desire, the first hindrance, its characteristic is to grasp an object belonging to the sensual sphere, its function is to adhere to that object like meat to a hot pan, its manifestation is not relinquishing its object, its proximate cause is the improper attention that sees the enjoyment but not the peril in sense-sphere pleasures.
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

Is a hindrance an unchanging thing?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Macavity
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Macavity »

If you mean the nature that is shared by all the hindrances, see the above quote from the Nivaranasutta.
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Macavity
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Macavity »

tiltbillings wrote:Is a hindrance an unchanging thing?
No. Like all condioned phenomena they arise, perform their function, and pass away.
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammabodhi »

Thanks to those who've replied to my query. :anjali:
Individual wrote: Eradicating sub-conscious sexual fantasies, though, among a layperson is not a reasonable goal.
I only meant eradication for those who keep the relevant precepts, i.e. monks and laity who decide to abstain completely from any sexual activity.
Surely for these people it would be quite a bother to have to "see", time and again, the temptations that they want to get away from(related question: is it possible to just "observe" dreams)?
That's why, like I said before, I'm interested to know how people deal with it in practical terms. Or whether it is true that these people(monks and lay celibates) could be plagued with sexuality and nocturnal emissions in dreams but they don't/can't do anything about it unless they become Arahants?

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread for my own questions.
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