There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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seeker242
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by seeker242 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:41 am

PsychedelicSunSet wrote:
Ben wrote:
PsychedelicSunSet wrote:Also I think it's important to note that anyone who's trying to cut milk and eggs out of their diet may want to get either almond, rice, or coconut milk, and not soy milk. As you'll probably have to be eating a lot of soy for your diet, which isn't necessarily that great for you.
According to whom?

Due to the fact that the vast majority of soy in the US is Monsanto, and therefore genetically modified, eating a lot of it can lead to health issues.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1822466
http://www.foodrenegade.com/dangers-of-soy/


Just two links I found by quickly searching dangers of soy. Some food for thought.


:namaste:
Yes, food for thought! But, it would be prudent to get both sides of the story. As there is definitely two, often diametrically opposed, sides to it. The below for example of just one article, but there are many others:
Is Soy Safe?
Busting the Myths of a Nutritional Powerhouse

Rarely has a nutritional source gained such rapid acceptance and drawn the kind of hostile scrutiny focused on soy. No sooner did the FDA take the highly unusual step of allowing a health claim to be made for soy as a food in 1999,1,2 than it came under attack by a vocal minority of “concerned citizens”—some of whom were found to represent a narrow segment of the food industry threatened by soy’s profits.3

Thanks to their efforts, considerable misinformation now contaminates the discussion of soy’s real impact on health. Instead of enjoying the broad range of benefits, many aging individuals are unnecessarily fearful of consuming soy products.

The good news is that the popularity and “controversy” surrounding soy have resulted in considerable clinical study and research, giving rise to a wealth of scientific literature that validates soy’s health-promoting potential.

In this article, you will find out how soy became the subject of controversy—and why it shouldn’t be.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/jul ... afe_01.htm

:namaste:

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mirco
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by mirco » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:54 am

Dear Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Not eating after mid day is one of my objectives. At this stage it is not practical for me, as I am still working. I am convinced one meal a day could be beneficial to my practice and in general to the world as a whole. I have already started not eating after 6.00 PM. (not possible to follow it all the time though) and found that it is helping me in various ways. (health etc) I am planning to bring this forward to midday gradually.

May be someone should start a "one meal a day challenge” thread.!!!!!!
Nice. I once had some weeks, where I ate only once per day, that was round about 3-4 pm.
My body felt very good during that time. Much more energy than usual.
Somehow it's not possible anymore at the moment..

Time will come :-)

Be Well
:stirthepot:
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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Ben
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Ben » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:37 am

Anyway - its time to get back on topic, thanks.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Varillon
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Varillon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:31 pm

What about killing to control a population? The local hunters frequently remind us that if deer are left unchecked, they will become a danger. Obviously, this could apply to non-food animals/insects (Flies come to mind since there are so many this year), but for this discussion, I'll stick to animals killed for both food and population control. Thoughts? (Note, I'm not a hunter, but this has been a question on my mind for some time.)

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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by DNS » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 pm

I have heard that the government fish & wildlife agencies promote and make it conducive for the breeding of some species such as deer to acquire more hunting license fees and permits.

Even if this were not true, what threat do deer pose? Perhaps, to cars driving on the freeways, but this can be averted. I think it was on this forum where I saw some beautiful pictures of some natural bridges made (perhaps in Australia or New Zealand?) for the wildlife to cross over and avoid the traffic.

I would actually like to see more deer. When I go to the forest to walk on the trails it seems there are fewer each year to see.

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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Varillon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:17 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:what threat do deer pose?
We have deer attacking people about every year. Granted, I don't know what these people are doing to provoke them. One that was in the news several years ago happened on a trail. That I didn't expect.

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Ben
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Ben » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:33 pm

Varillon wrote:What about killing to control a population? The local hunters frequently remind us that if deer are left unchecked, they will become a danger. Obviously, this could apply to non-food animals/insects (Flies come to mind since there are so many this year), but for this discussion, I'll stick to animals killed for both food and population control. Thoughts? (Note, I'm not a hunter, but this has been a question on my mind for some time.)
I would appreciate it if you stay on topic which is about the ethics of consumption - not population control.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Varillon
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Varillon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:45 pm

Ben wrote:
Varillon wrote:...for this discussion, I'll stick to animals killed for both food and population control. Thoughts?
I would appreciate it if you stay on topic which is about the ethics of consumption - not population control.
My apologies, I wasn't clear enough. These animals are going to be killed regardless of consumption, so is it better to throw the meat away or consume? Then there's the case of accidental death by running into an animal, etc. I haven't yet found anything in the suttas to suggest wasting is better than consumption.

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Ben
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Ben » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:24 am

Varillon wrote:
Ben wrote:
Varillon wrote:...for this discussion, I'll stick to animals killed for both food and population control. Thoughts?
I would appreciate it if you stay on topic which is about the ethics of consumption - not population control.
My apologies, I wasn't clear enough. These animals are going to be killed regardless of consumption, so is it better to throw the meat away or consume? Then there's the case of accidental death by running into an animal, etc. I haven't yet found anything in the suttas to suggest wasting is better than consumption.
Please refer to the first post in this thread regarding the subject of this thread.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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seeker242
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by seeker242 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:54 am

Varillon wrote:
Ben wrote:
Varillon wrote:...for this discussion, I'll stick to animals killed for both food and population control. Thoughts?
I would appreciate it if you stay on topic which is about the ethics of consumption - not population control.
My apologies, I wasn't clear enough. These animals are going to be killed regardless of consumption, so is it better to throw the meat away or consume? Then there's the case of accidental death by running into an animal, etc. I haven't yet found anything in the suttas to suggest wasting is better than consumption.
With regards to the OP and dairy cows, it's better for them to not even be bred to begin with. The animals are only born in these farms because farmers deliberately breed them to produce more cows to produce more milk. Once they stop producing the milk, they are sent to the slaughterhouse...If demand for milk drops because people stop buying it, less animals will be born into these farms and less animals will suffer and die on these farms because of that. In other words, the animal can't be killed if it's not even born to begin with!

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Sekha
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by Sekha » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:11 pm

Ben wrote:I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age. Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?
I am glad to see you are now promoting such a logic.

I would raise another question: is it absolutely necessary to make cattle suffer beyond limits in order to produce milk? If the answer is affirmative, then it is clearly unethical. If not, the answer is not so clear, because IMO we are not responsible for the wrong choices of the farm industry, and of all those who pressure it to produce at low cost, no matter what it means for the cattle. But we then we would have to make genuine effort to consume milk that is produced without making cattle suffer, as far as it can be found. In case it is possible to get milk without cruelty, due to the fact that the cow may produce more than the calf's need, then I think it was okay in traditional societies such as at the time of the Buddha, because bulls were raised to plough fields, so they did not become useless.

That said, given the fact that dairy products are not necessary in our diet, and can even be a problem, it seems more logical to avoid them altogether, for all those reasons.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by SarathW » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:50 pm

Cow Dhamma

The following link give some insight into this OP

http://www.aimwell.org/cows.html
:pig:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:33 am

The only country in the world that has a Bill of Rights for Cows is India!!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

mahat
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by mahat » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:44 pm

Industrialization of agriculture is probably the worst thing to happen to humanity and livestock. These livestock are treated as "things" and not living, breathing beings who suffer. All the meat, milk is tainted due to the torture and fear these animals face everyday. Not only is it unethical, the fear and pain of the animals obviously affect the food products.

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cooran
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Post by cooran » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:31 am

SarathW wrote:The only country in the world that has a Bill of Rights for Cows is India!!
What difference has it made? Nil. India is the largest exporter of meat in the world:
https://www.causes.com/actions/1749732- ... g-in-india

With metta,
Chris
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