Thai Theravadin monks and money

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GraemeR
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Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by GraemeR »

forestmat wrote:Having moved out of Bangkok after living there for 10 years, from what I experience daily, villagers in Isarn (NE Thailand) are still waking up early to prepare rice for both themselves and monks on pindabat.

Metta
I think it's the urban monks that many people have lost respect for.

In rural areas there is often better conduct both by monks and laity.

Grahan
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robertk
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by robertk »

forestmat wrote:
Rojanaphruk says he remembers the days when his grandmother would wake up before sunrise every morning to prepare food for the alms bowls of monks. “This was the way it was done for thousands of years,” he says. “But who has time for that these days? It’s easier just to give money.”
Having moved out of Bangkok after living there for 10 years, from what I experience daily, villagers in Isarn (NE Thailand) are still waking up early to prepare rice for both themselves and monks on pindabat.

Metta
i lived in sukimvit 24 in the heart of bangkok for 5 years and if i was ever up at daylight there were dozens of people lined up waiting to give food to monks. far more food than they could eat actially.
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robertk
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by robertk »

GraemeR wrote:
forestmat wrote:Having moved out of Bangkok after living there for 10 years, from what I experience daily, villagers in Isarn (NE Thailand) are still waking up early to prepare rice for both themselves and monks on pindabat.

Metta
I think it's the urban monks that many people have lost respect for.

In rural areas there is often better conduct both by monks and laity.

Grahan
well the multi millionairre monk recently disrobed after the picture of him in a private jet had his temple in si saket, one of the poorest rural areas of isaan.
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forestmat
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by forestmat »

robertk wrote:
forestmat wrote:
Rojanaphruk says he remembers the days when his grandmother would wake up before sunrise every morning to prepare food for the alms bowls of monks. “This was the way it was done for thousands of years,” he says. “But who has time for that these days? It’s easier just to give money.”
Having moved out of Bangkok after living there for 10 years, from what I experience daily, villagers in Isarn (NE Thailand) are still waking up early to prepare rice for both themselves and monks on pindabat.

Metta
i lived in sukimvit 24 in the heart of bangkok for 5 years and if i was ever up at daylight there were dozens of people lined up waiting to give food to monks. far more food than they could eat actially.

Thanks @RobertK,

my post was in relation to the quote:
"Rojanaphruk says he remembers the days when his grandmother would wake up before sunrise every morning to prepare food for the alms bowls of monks. “This was the way it was done for thousands of years,” he says. “But who has time for that these days? It’s easier just to give money.”
It wasn't meant to be have been taken as a comparison between urban and rural lay Buddhists.

Metta.
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Bankei
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by Bankei »

Touching money is not such an issue in my opinion, it is the becoming attached to it and the businessisation of monks that concerns me.

For example you must actually pay monks to get ordained as a monk. The going rate for a compulsory donation to a upatcha is about 3,000B. Each monks attending the ceremony will also get around 500B. All up a very expensive affair.

I wonder what all these monks do with the money??
Bankei
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Bankei wrote:Touching money is not such an issue in my opinion, it is the becoming attached to it and the businessisation of monks that concerns me.i
If they were not attached to it, they would not accept it.

This section on rules entailing Expiation with Forfeiture explains what should be done with money if it is accepted by a monk.

It is a major issue in my opinion. There are other more serious offences, such as sexual misconduct of various kinds, but if lay people didn't offer money to monks, most corrupt individuals would soon leave the Saṅgha, as there would be no advantage in remaining. We get free meals, and free accommodation so that we can meditate, study, and teach the Dhamma. We do not need to be paid for the work that we do as our basic needs are provided by lay supporters.
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A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by A fool from HK »

Dear Bhikkhu Pesala,

I am a HK people who use to be a christian,Mahayana Buddhlist and finally become a theravada buddhlist.

Concerning the money issues, may I have your comments on the following cases?

I joined a Mahashi meditation workshop in April this year (held in Macau) which leaded by a bhikkhuni (who served as the English translator for Sayadaw U Pandita before). At the end of the workshop, she accepted the money we given to her.
Also, please see the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O22KY1PHdk, the sangha seems to accept money (12:00 of the video, the money is in the red pocket as Chinese tradition).
Did both cases violate the rules? or it is ok as long as no one actually own the money?

Thanks.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

A fool from HK wrote:I joined a Mahasi meditation workshop in April this year (held in Macau) which leaded by a bhikkhuni (who served as the English translator for Sayadaw U Pandita before). At the end of the workshop, she accepted the money we given to her.
Thank you for the action movie :)

If she was a bhikkhuni, then she violated the Vinaya rule. However, if she was a Burmese trained nun in pink robes (a thilashin) then she would, I believe, be following just the eight precepts, so for her to accept money is no offence.
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SarathW
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by SarathW »

Hi Friend from HK

When you become a monk you take 10 precepts.
The tenth precept is:
10.Refrain from accepting money.

As far as I know any monk who accept money break the Vinaya rules.
So it is important for the lay person to make sure that they take proper care of the monks.

See the following link for the difference between 8 and 10 precepts.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20550
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thepea
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by thepea »

How about laypeople giving a monk a credit card to use for monestary repairs?
A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by A fool from HK »

SarathW wrote:Hi Friend from HK


So it is important for the lay person to make sure that they take proper care of the monks.



http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20550
Oops.....I have given money to monks directly.
How about giving money "indirectly" for example, put it into the box in monestary (there is theravada monestary near my home having this practice). Or placing in front of the monks, but finally collected by a lay person representatives?
thepea wrote:How about laypeople giving a monk a credit card to use for monestary repairs?
I have similar question, I just donated money the monestary for buying the ownership of a house(the monestary consists of 3 houses, the second one is own by other people, so lay people is now trying to buy this house for the monestary) a few days before. That day I give the money to a monk. He "phyiscally'' touched the money. But I believe he will give the money to someone else.

Thanks.
culaavuso
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by culaavuso »

A fool from HK wrote: How about giving money "indirectly" for example, put it into the box in monestary (there is theravada monestary near my home having this practice). Or placing in front of the monks, but finally collected by a lay person representatives?
There is the Meṇḍaka Allowance, permitting the donation of money to a lay steward who will spend it for a bhikkhu's benefit at a later time.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

There are monks who say that it's allowable to use a credit card because the bank is acting as the monks' steward. I disagree, but it might be allowable if the monk uses the lay supporter's credit card (with their permission of course), as the money still belongs to the lay person. Then, the monk is just informing the retailer what he needs.

It's not something I would like to do — if any money goes missing from the lay person's account then one might be suspected of stealing. Best is to let a lay person pay all the bills from a Trust account managed by lay people, over which the monk has no direct control.

If the lay person has authorised the monk to order goods, then the monk can send the bills to the lay person.
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thepea
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by thepea »

While doing some flooring repairs to my local Vihara center, I ran out of a certain material. The previous materials I was using were purchased and delivered by a devotee who remained for a few days at my side to provide me with anything necessary. There was one day where he had personal business to tend to and I ran short of a few things. The abbot said he had a credit card at his disposal for emergencies, and he accompanied me to the hardware store and purchased the necessary items. I questioned him in regards to his handling what I considered money, he said he was the only monk who had access to this card, and that without this system the Vihara center could simply not function.

All in all it was a pleasant no-nonsense experience, it did not feel to me that he had done wrong in any way. He seems a very disciplined man from my encounters with him.

From my understanding the cards bill is paid monthly by a lay devotee, I suppose this is just a necessary part of running a meditation centre in this day and age in a non-Buddhist location.
A fool from HK
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Re: Thai Theravadin monks and money

Post by A fool from HK »

Would there be any chances for the Theravada Sanghas from different locations of the world to organize a conference for discussion of this controversial issue?
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