Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

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PeterB
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by PeterB » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:47 am

If I might be permitted to stick my puzzled nose in.
Why is it anyone's business apart from this gentleman and his wife ? :smile:

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Sokehi
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Sokehi » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:43 pm

Isn't it a bit like with the laities need for amusement in celebreties, for drama, for who is falling in love with whom. As found with Royals, Moviestars and Popmusicians?

I don't think it's anyones business. To argue he might have broken his precepts befor disrobing, with argueing the woman might be the villain... none of our business and everyone should think much more about ones own conduct. He disrobed, he married her. End of story.

May they be well.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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hermitwin
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by hermitwin » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:40 pm

As a monk, you enter into a contract with the
people who support you.
A monk is a teacher, a role model and an inspirational figure.
To say that a monk who disrobes and marries the woman he loves
is just a career change or he does not owe an explanation to
his supporters means that you do not understand the role
a monk plays in his community and the unique nature of
the relationship between a monk and his followers.
Quite different from Anne Heche declaring she was gay
and then not gay, and went on to marry a man.

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purple planet
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by purple planet » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:53 pm

I think a monk should act like a monk when his a monk and he can leave that whenever he likes - but someone like him who is a well known monk who thought the dhamma - it does seem a bit not ok

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robertk
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by robertk » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:48 am

hermitwin wrote:As a monk, you enter into a contract with the
people who support you.
A monk is a teacher, a role model and an inspirational figure.
To say that a monk who disrobes and marries the woman he loves
is just a career change or he does not owe an explanation to
his supporters means that you do not understand the role
a monk plays in his community and the unique nature of
the relationship between a monk and his followers.
Quite different from Anne Heche declaring she was gay
and then not gay, and went on to marry a man.
Do you have the vinaya reference indicating that a monk has to explain to his supporters the reasons for his disrobing?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:07 am

Why he disrobed is none of our damned business.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Sekha
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Sekha » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

If people think that monks they donate to should be accountable to them for what they do, they have not understood what generosity means in the teaching of the Buddha.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Mr Man
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Mr Man » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:55 am

forestmat wrote:Maybe to 'clear' his/her name, two books are due out next week in Thailand

"Mitsuo Shibahashi, formerly known as Phra Mitsuo Gavesako, will launch two new books that promise to tell all about why he left the monkhood after almost 40 years to pursue a married life."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... es-memoirs
As per forestmat's early post Mitsuo Shibahashi is apparently providing an explanation. So possibly he feels it is needed.

For those who are close to or who had faith in a teacher, wanting some kind of an explanation seems fairly reasonable when the teacher takes a seemingly dramatic change in direction.

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Sekha
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Sekha » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:51 pm

Actions tell more than words. He can write 100 books, it won't change the facts.

Besides, the Buddha warned us against relying excessively on someone:
Furthermore, bhikkhus, that person in which an individual has confidence has forsaken the order. He thinks thus: 'This person who is dear and charming to us has forsaken the order'. He does not keep companionship with other fellow bhikkhus. Not keeping companionship with other bhikkhus, he doesn't hear the proper Dhamma. Not hearing the proper Dhamma, he falls away from the proper Dhamma. This, bhikkhus, is the fourth danger of placing confidence in an individual.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 5-250.html
This is easily translatable for lay people
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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robertk
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by robertk » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:19 pm

perfect quote

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Sokehi
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Sokehi » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:30 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Why he disrobed is none of our damned business.
:goodpost:

we and others should let him live the life he wishes to and stop gossiping about it.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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Mr Man
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Mr Man » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:22 pm

Sekha wrote:Actions tell more than words. He can write 100 books, it won't change the facts.
What facts do you mean? The fact that he wishes to/feels obliged to give an explanation through a book?

Of Course we should "be islands unto yourselves, be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html but personally I don't think that that negates what I said: "For those who are close to or who had faith in a teacher, wanting some kind of an explanation seems fairly reasonable when the teacher takes a seemingly dramatic change in direction."

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Sekha
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Sekha » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:28 pm

I meant the fact that he disrobed to marry someone speaks by itself. There is no need for any explanation. And no one should ask for any, because either it reveals an attachment to the outcome of generosity, and an inferior motivation thereof, or it is involvement in what is none of our business.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Mr Man
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by Mr Man » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:37 pm

Sekha wrote:I meant the fact that he disrobed to marry someone speaks by itself. There is no need for any explanation. And no one should ask for any, because either it reveals an attachment to the outcome of generosity, and an inferior motivation thereof, or it is involvement in what is none of our business.
Sekha your views here seem to be rather judgemental.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:58 am

It is none of our business why this man disrobed, and our opinions and speculations in this matter are inappropriate. This thread is ended.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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