My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

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Feathers
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Feathers » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:58 am

A layperson might choose to give the best apple to the monk, but a monk who expects the best as his due and gets arsey if it isn't offered him needs a couple of slaps in the face with a rotten fish.

Not saying that that was what was going on in the OP, he may have had good reason for rejecting a month's supply of bananas :p
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lyndon taylor
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:21 am

Well I guess we see monks differently, "ripe" or overripe bananas make me physically ill and want to barf, if some one offered me that I don't see why I'm obligated to take it.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Feathers
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Feathers » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:27 am

If they make you ill it's different, I'm not suggesting you should eat rotting meat or something that will actually harm you! But if it's just fussiness like you described between an 'ok' apple and a 'perfect' apple . . .
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lyndon taylor
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:49 am

One of the points I am trying to make is that one persons edible partly brown banana, might be a rotten banana to someone more squemish like me, My own mom will eat what I consider rotten bananas and if I were to eat them they make me gag, so before we judge the monk in the OPs story we need to see the bananas and maybe estimate how many days if ever they will be eaten in, does anyone even consider they may have already had some fresher supply of less brown bananas, anyway if your going to take bananas to a monastery I suggest you buy them at the supermarket fresh the same day the way you would for your self, rather than decide they're getting old we'll just give them to the monks!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Anagarika
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Anagarika » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:29 pm

I believe the Vinaya requires a monk to accept whatever he/she is offered. The lay people are making merit, and supporting the monks, and the monks are in turn being of support to the laity. Whatever goes in the almsbowl stays there. I went on pindabaht as a samanera in Thailand, and can say that the strict rules were followed...no requests can be made for anything, and anything given by the laity is accepted with a chant. Once back at the temple, the offerings are sorted out, and some items might be set aside for the homeless (who showed up in the afternoons at the temple looking for food) or even leftovers for the dogs at the temple, who need to eat, too. The idea is that sometimes the almsbowl contained stale sticky rice, or a brown banana, or worse, a meat or fish item in a plastic bag so wickedly spicy hot that it was difficult to eat. In any case, all of the food went to good use that day.

Nothing would be more shocking to a layperson on the street, kneeling on the ground in front of their home, to have a monk refuse a ripe brown banana. That brown spotty banana might have been the best of the bunch that the family was to eat later that day.

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Virgo
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Virgo » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:44 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:One of the points I am trying to make is that one persons edible partly brown banana, might be a rotten banana to someone more squemish like me, My own mom will eat what I consider rotten bananas and if I were to eat them they make me gag, so before we judge the monk in the OPs story we need to see the bananas and maybe estimate how many days if ever they will be eaten in, does anyone even consider they may have already had some fresher supply of less brown bananas, anyway if your going to take bananas to a monastery I suggest you buy them at the supermarket fresh the same day the way you would for your self, rather than decide they're getting old we'll just give them to the monks!!
Don't be hard to please bhikkhu. :anjali:

Kevin

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lyndon taylor
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:58 pm

I'm not a monk anymore and I'm speaking entirely as a lay person about appropriate gifts to the monks, if leftovers is the absolute best you have to give then maybe, but have a little respect for the monks. they're asking you for very little, its seems the least you could do is give good food......This is not an issue of how the monks should behave but rather how the alms giving lay person should behave, as for the monks I'm not qualified to speak on their behalf.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Feathers
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Feathers » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:04 pm

I'm not suggesting you should give bad food to the monks - if I was somewhere where monks went on alms rounds I probably would set aside good food for them! But at the same time the monks should not be picky, unless it is actually a question of health - they shouldn't expect as their right the best food, which is what you seemed to imply in the apple situation.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:25 pm

You have it backwards, the monk didn't choose which apple you gave him, you did, its a matter of respect, and I see a lot of disrespect for monks on these forums, I don't think any lay person quite appreciates just how difficult it can be to actually become a monk, even if its not for a whole lifetime. Before you criticize a monk for accepting money, when you use money every day, try being a monk in the modern world and not use money, then give your opinion, the monks are there to help you learn, the least you can do is show a little respect in return.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Virgo
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Virgo » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:36 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:Before you criticize a monk for accepting money, when you use money every day, try being a monk in the modern world and not use money, then give your opinion, the monks are there to help you learn, the least you can do is show a little respect in return.
I did. The least monks could do is have a little respect for the Vinaya and follow the rules they vow to follow - and which they joyfully reaffirm fortnightly.

I lived as a bhikkhu in 2008 without accepting, keeping, or using money. It really wasn't that difficult. The difficult part was the celibacy, and especially not falling into sanghadisesa.

When I needed to go somewhere, I walked. If I needed a ride there were usually lay people that would give me one, and if I needed a cab, lay people would pay the driver up front or when I got to my destination. What else would a monk need money for nowadays? Food, requisites, shelter? Those are all donated...

Buddhist monks are not allowed use money. If they want to use money, they can be laypeople.

Kevin

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cooran
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by cooran » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Thank you, Kevin. Ven. Dhammasiha at Dhammagiri Hermitage does not use money, and accepts only whatever food Dana is offered by devout lay people, and, if travel is needed, he is transported by lay people. A good monk should follow the Vinaya. He has my absolute respect.

With metta,
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Virgo
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Virgo » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:28 pm

cooran wrote:Thank you, Kevin. Ven. Dhammasiha at Dhammagiri Hermitage does not use money, and accepts only whatever food Dana is offered by devout lay people, and, if travel is needed, he is transported by lay people. A good monk should follow the Vinaya. He has my absolute respect.

With metta,
Chris
And mine too. Thanks for sharing that! :namaste:

Anumodhana

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appicchato
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by appicchato » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:12 pm

...they're asking you for very little...
(Skillful) monks don't ask for anything...(water the exception)...

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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Dr. Dukkha » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:41 pm

So I talked to the monk that refused the food.
He told me that food that you give to monk has to be special.
So he doesn't always accept leftovers.
And that he would prefer for me to give the leftovers to homeless people around the area.
Then he told me that he had nothing to eat tomorrow but still didn't regret his decision.

What do you guys think about this?
"There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."

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Sekha
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Re: My monk teacher refused almsfood and handles money?

Post by Sekha » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:17 pm

That's BS. As others have said, a true monk accepts whatever is given, if it's allowable, of course.
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