Shut-down

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Anagarika
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Re: Shut-down

Post by Anagarika » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:57 pm

Kim, thank you for the invite to Australia. Some of my ancestors were likely shipped there from Ireland and perhaps in a next life I'll get a chance to be born in Perth, for example, and visit Ajahn Brahm's Serpentine Wat on Friday night. :thumbsup: To be serious, I do hope my kids and I can visit your excellent country.

I've taken in some of the comments above about what's wrong with the US. I've lived for a time in Ireland while in school, and traveled a bit through Europe, and Canada.

Yes, there's a racial angst that permeates the country. We have, for example, in Chicago significant black-on-black crime which has caused some to want to arm themselves so that they can be "ready" the next time a gang member walks in a 7/11 with a gun. Fear of unknown risks drives people to do unusual things. These fears allow many in this country to project their fears on "others' in society that they feel are not like them.

My own sense, as well, is that Americans are less sophisticated about world issues generally, than Europeans. We have university degrees, but seem more ignorant, less emotionally sophisticated, less kind and less diplomatic. We are less well read, than, say my friends in Ireland who generally understood history, geography, poetry, art and we quite conversant in the pubs over many issues, while my American friends seemed very limited in their scope of interests. This is a horrible generalization, of course, as in the US you will find some of the most inspiring. compassionate, learned and gifted people on the planet....but as a general rule, we are a greedy, unsophisticated, and angry lot. And we have guns, which means that when someone or something pisses us off, Plan A seems to be to grab a gun and starting shooting.

As for our politics, watch Fox News for a week. Complete rubbish, driven by blood profits, and evangelizing for the bible toting, gun owning, angry, poorly educated Southerner , redneck, and conspiracy theorist that believes that Pres. Obama is actually the antichrist.

And we gave the world the blight that was Pres. GW Bush and Dick Cheney. For that alone we should be placed on UN sanctions. Two perfect examples of what is so wrong with this country.

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Shut-down

Post by m0rl0ck » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:19 pm

Gee guys, stereotype much?
Obama got about 39 - 40% of the white vote. About the same as other winning democratic candidates.
I was going to go into some of the other stereotypes, but you know what, to hell with it. Probably a losing battle. Stereotypes make people feel so smart, whatever their real intelligence, its probably useless to try to fight them.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:45 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:Gee guys, stereotype much?
Obama got about 39 - 40% of the white vote. About the same as other winning democratic candidates.
I was going to go into some of the other stereotypes, but you know what, to hell with it. Probably a losing battle. Stereotypes make people feel so smart, whatever their real intelligence, its probably useless to try to fight them.
Well, this is not helpful. Basically you are saying: "You guys are poopy-pants, but I am not going to say who and why."

If I am stereotyping, please say so. I don't think I am, but I am willing to discuss it, and would like to deal with it, if I am.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:49 pm

daverupa wrote:Language taboos are fascinating.

I took your earlier point well, tilt, and sympathize with having to negotiate knee-jerk non-racism-as-fixation. Focusing on "don't say the bad words" is something of a focus on the bad words, disallowing them to fall neutrally into conversation - reading research literature on profanity would probably be difficult going for such folk.

:heart:

:focus:
Thanks.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: Shut-down

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:03 pm

Dr. Cornel West on Racism, Inequality, & American Empire

Well worth a watch.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Shut-down

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:31 pm

BuddhaSoup wrote:... My own sense, as well, is that Americans are less sophisticated about world issues generally, than Europeans.
This is something I've noticed from outside, too. I think one of the reasons is the perfectly reasonable point that the US was big enough and isolated enough to be nearly completely self-sufficient up until, say, Pearl Harbour. That has left you playing catch-up in engagement with the world at the same time the world is shrinking and US superpower-dom is dwindling - no wonder there is some resistance to it.

:namaste:
Kim

Samma
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Re: Shut-down

Post by Samma » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:03 pm

From what I understand this mainly comes down to Boehner.

A clear cr could pass the house, but boehner won't allow it because if he does the 80 or so far right members might challenge his speaker-ship.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... ed-of.html

So the far right is trying to extract concessions before the debt ceiling, at which time boehner will cave...or maybe not, a default, and probably a depression.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:50 am

Samma wrote:From what I understand this mainly comes down to Boehner.
He is a gutless wonder.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

chownah
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Re: Shut-down

Post by chownah » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:36 am

Samma wrote:From what I understand this mainly comes down to Boehner.

A clear cr could pass the house, but boehner won't allow it because if he does the 80 or so far right members might challenge his speaker-ship.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... ed-of.html

So the far right is trying to extract concessions before the debt ceiling, at which time boehner will cave...or maybe not, a default, and probably a depression.
Yeah, those rich people on congress really fear the possibility of a depression because they will stop making so much money.....for awhile......

So, why do all of you fear the possibility of a depression?
chownah

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:41 am

Image
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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retrofuturist
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Re: Shut-down

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:45 am

Greetings,
chownah wrote:So, why do all of you fear the possibility of a depression?
Speaking from a personal (non-American) perspective, my concerns around a depression isn't the reduction in GDP for 2+ years (because we probably already generate too much "stuff" as a society) but about the impact of rising unemployment to the individuals and families impacted by loss of the primary family income, and the social ills such as crime, drug dependency and mental health issues that can arise from a high structural unemployment rate, which can lead many people to become "unemployable".

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:56 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
chownah wrote:So, why do all of you fear the possibility of a depression?
Speaking from a personal (non-American) perspective, my concerns around a depression isn't the reduction in GDP for 2+ years (because we probably already generate too much "stuff" as a society) but about the impact of rising unemployment to the individuals and families impacted by loss of the primary family income, and the social ills such as crime, drug dependency and mental health issues that can arise from a high structural unemployment rate, which can lead many people to become "unemployable".

Metta,
Retro. :)
That is pretty much it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

chownah
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Re: Shut-down

Post by chownah » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:13 am

I guess, then, that neither of you fear a depression but you are concerned about a crime rate getting bigger, about the amount of drugs being taken rising etc. Dukkha. Anyone who has been living and working in amerika for long would have saved up a bundle of money unless they had greedily spent it on indulgements.....crime and violence are certainly a concern and I try to help people avoid these things when I can. I think though realistically that the big fear in most amerikans' minds is that there will be less money to spend and luxuries will disappear......no new tv, computer, car,clothes, hairdo, nail polish etc...........basically that the objects of clinging will not be available in adequate quality or quantity.
chownah

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:24 am

chownah wrote:I guess, then, that neither of you fear a depression but you are concerned about a crime rate getting bigger, about the amount of drugs being taken rising etc. Dukkha. Anyone who has been living and working in amerika for long would have saved up a bundle of money unless they had greedily spent it on indulgements.....crime and violence are certainly a concern and I try to help people avoid these things when I can. I think though realistically that the big fear in most amerikans' minds is that there will be less money to spend and luxuries will disappear......no new tv, computer, car,clothes, hairdo, nail polish etc...........basically that the objects of clinging will not be available in adequate quality or quantity.
chownah
A depression is to be feared for the potential increase in poverty and suffering, which is how I read retro msg. As for your -- I think though realistically that the big fear in most amerikans' minds is that there will be less money to spend and luxuries will disappear -- that bespeaks more about your prejudices (as does your cute "k") than the reality of what "most Americans fear." You simply do not know of what you speak.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shut-down

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:35 am

Given the rather ongoing negative tenor of this thread, it is being shutdown.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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