Is intention kamma?

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Tom
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Is intention kamma?

Post by Tom »

Is intention itself kamma? For example, if one has an intention to undertake some deed, but ends up not doing the deed, is the intention itself considered kamma?
Sanjay PS
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Sanjay PS »

Tom wrote:Is intention itself kamma? For example, if one has an intention to undertake some deed, but ends up not doing the deed, is the intention itself considered kamma?
To my understanding and reasoning , intent is kamma . But if the intent is translated onto vocal and physical action , the kamma is that much more stronger , whether wholesome or unwholesome.

sanjay
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cooran
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by cooran »

Hello Tom,

Yes - intentional action is kamma:
Intentional Action
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... kamma.html

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by beeblebrox »

Hi all,

I think the Buddha actually made a distinction in between the intention (or volition) and the mental kamma. The volition gives rise to the mental, speech and action kamma.

I think he (or maybe it's just commentary?) also put more weight on the mental kamma than the speech or action kamma.

I think that's something good to contemplate about. Maybe it could be because when one speaks or acts, it's easier to see what kind of fruits that will make... rather than just thinking about it and then not seeing what actually happens if that's acted or spoken upon?

Also, it might be because the mental kamma happens more frequently (just from my observation) rather than speech or action kamma, so there's more opportunity to practice with the mental kamma.

Also, I think if the mental kamma becomes habitual, it will eventually find a way to manifest itself into the physical realm... so it's always good to take care of that every time it comes up. Study it... don't try just to ignore it, or suppress it.

:anjali:
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Sanjay PS »

beeblebrox wrote:Hi all,

I think the Buddha actually made a distinction in between the intention (or volition) and the mental kamma. The volition gives rise to the mental, speech and action kamma.

I think he (or maybe it's just commentary?) also put more weight on the mental kamma than the speech or action kamma.

I think that's something good to contemplate about. Maybe it could be because when one speaks or acts, it's easier to see what kind of fruits that will make... rather than just thinking about it and then not seeing what actually happens if that's acted or spoken upon?

Also, it might be because the mental kamma happens more frequently (just from my observation) rather than speech or action kamma, so there's more opportunity to practice with the mental kamma.

Also, I think if the mental kamma becomes habitual, it will eventually find a way to manifest itself into the physical realm... so it's always good to take care of that every time it comes up. Study it... don't try just to ignore it, or suppress it.

:anjali:

I think this is the best of all in defining kamma and its ways.

thank you,

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
chownah
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by chownah »

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
"
AN 6.63 PTS: A iii 410
Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1997


Seems pretty clear cut and straightforward.

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kc2dpt
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by kc2dpt »

Tom wrote:Is intention itself kamma? For example, if one has an intention to undertake some deed, but ends up not doing the deed, is the intention itself considered kamma?
As I understand the teachings, yes an intentional thought still has consequences, even if that thought does not immediately turn into words or deeds.
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Aloka
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Aloka »

kc2dpt wrote: As I understand the teachings, yes an intentional thought still has consequences, even if that thought does not immediately turn into words or deeds.
Is it not perhaps the case that If someone is rude to me and the wish to make an angry reply comes into my mind ...but then I decide against it, focus on the breath and calm down completely, then that angry thought has had positive rather than negative consequences ?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Aloka wrote:
kc2dpt wrote:Is it not perhaps the case that If someone is rude to me and the wish to make an angry reply comes into my mind ...but then I decide against it, focus on the breath and calm down completely, then that angry thought has had positive rather than negative consequences ?
If we get angry at all, we already made some unwholesome kamma. However, if we have awareness and wisdom, then we can suppress the anger and cultivate wholesome thoughts of patience and compassion instead, perhaps even removing the anger completely in the present moment. However, at a later date, when we are not so mindful, the anger can come back to bite us again. So, the angry thoughts might still have negative consequences later.

It's the wholesome thoughts such as patience and compassion that have positive consequences, not the angry thoughts.
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seeker242
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by seeker242 »

Tom wrote:Is intention itself kamma? For example, if one has an intention to undertake some deed, but ends up not doing the deed, is the intention itself considered kamma?
I would say yes. But just not as bad if you had added the unskillful action to it. For example, you intend to steal something but because someone saw you lurking around or whatever, you did not steal anything. This would still be making bad kamma. I don't see how it could not!
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Aloka
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Aloka »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Aloka wrote:
kc2dpt wrote:Is it not perhaps the case that If someone is rude to me and the wish to make an angry reply comes into my mind ...but then I decide against it, focus on the breath and calm down completely, then that angry thought has had positive rather than negative consequences ?
If we get angry at all, we already made some unwholesome kamma. However, if we have awareness and wisdom, then we can suppress the anger and cultivate wholesome thoughts of patience and compassion instead, perhaps even removing the anger completely in the present moment. However, at a later date, when we are not so mindful, the anger can come back to bite us again. So, the angry thoughts might still have negative consequences later.

It's the wholesome thoughts such as patience and compassion that have positive consequences, not the angry thoughts.
Surely though, if we practice correctly and continue to develop the wholesome, there will eventually be a time when anger doesn't "come back to bite us again", otherwise there would be no progress on the path.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Aloka wrote:Surely though, if we practice correctly and continue to develop the wholesome, there will eventually be a time when anger doesn't "come back to bite us again", otherwise there would be no progress on the path.

:anjali:
Yes, but only at the stage of Non-returning. Before attaining Stream-winning, we are still capable of killing someone if the circumstances conspire to make us angry. For example, what would you do if someone you had quarrelled with or someone you don't even know burnt down your house, killing your wife and children?
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Aloka
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Aloka »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Yes, but only at the stage of Non-returning. Before attaining Stream-winning, we are still capable of killing someone if the circumstances conspire to make us angry. For example, what would you do if someone you had quarrelled with or someone you don't even know burnt down your house, killing your wife and children?
I'm a woman and I don't have a wife/husband and children....and I couldn't kill someone whatever they'd done.


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Cittasanto »

Tom wrote:Is intention itself kamma? For example, if one has an intention to undertake some deed, but ends up not doing the deed, is the intention itself considered kamma?
Intention is Kamma, as in a mental action.
As all acts start out as a mental process - even knee jerk reactions - intention has a role, whether deliberate or not.

what one perceives, what one thinks over, and what one fills the senses with: this supports the continuation of consciousness, and is a support for acts of body, speech and mind in the future.
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Tom
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Re: Is intention kamma?

Post by Tom »

Would "volition" or some other term be a better translation of "cetana"?
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