judgment-free awareness

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
Your point with these quotes is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Spiny Norman »

ohnofabrications wrote: does one keep the battle away from oneself? (not tolerating defilement approach)
or does one keep oneself away from the battle? (radical acceptance approach)
The Satipatthana Sutta seems to say that we should be mindful of whatever arises, good, bad and indifferent - feelings, mind-states etc. The question is what we do then. Presumably this involves not indulging in unwholesome states of mind, and developing wholesome states of mind, as for example with the 7 factors of enlightenment?
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Spiny Norman »

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Which component(s) of the Noble Eightfold Path does "judgment-free awareness" correlate to?

Metta,
Retro. :)
The same as the Buddha's instructions to Bahiya.
Actually, isn't it just describing an approach to mindfulness?
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

Spiny Norman wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Which component(s) of the Noble Eightfold Path does "judgment-free awareness" correlate to?

Metta,
Retro. :)
The same as the Buddha's instructions to Bahiya.
Actually, isn't it just describing an approach to mindfulness?
I always thought so.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
pegembara
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by pegembara »

tiltbillings wrote:
pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
Your point with these quotes is?
Judgement free awareness would be like blissing out under the Bodhi tree and sampajanna would be thinking, "Who can I benefit benefit from this discovery?"
Judgement free awareness would be like walking into the path of a raging cow and getting gored. With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.

It is not enough to just see, hear, smell etc. See David's comment.
Don't forget the active component.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

pegembara wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
Your point with these quotes is?
Judgement free awareness would be like blissing out under the Bodhi tree and sampajanna would be thinking, "Who can I benefit benefit from this discovery?"
Judgement free awareness would be like walking into the path of a raging cow and getting gored. With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.

It is not enough to just see, hear, smell etc. See David's comment.
Don't forget the active component.
So, Ajahns Chah and Munindo haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Mr Man »

The "judgment-free awareness" still needs to be taken within a context and to practice it is not easy.
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Kenshou »

I think that this approach actually automatically satisfies right effort, because that kind of attitude is really just the sort of thing that feeds good qualities and starves bad ones, settles the mind, and allows clear comprehension, in an nearly (but not entirely) effortless way. It is a very refined practice that comes about from a lot of experience and a well developed mind.
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:The "judgment-free awareness" still needs to be taken within a context and to practice it is not easy.
What the Ajahns are talking about is a mature practice.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Samma
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Samma »

Note that Still Forrest Pool was compiled by jack kornfield & paul breiter.
So not sure that is a quote maybe more paraphrase.
Whatever there is that arises in the mind, just watch it. Let go of it. Don't even wish to be rid of thoughts. Then the mind will reach its natural state. No discriminating between good and bad, hot and cold, fast and slow. No me and no you, no self at all. Just what there is. When you walk on alms-round, no need to do anything special. Simply walk and see what there is. No need to cling to isolation or seclusion. Wherever you are, know yourself by being natural and watching. If doubts arise, watch them come
and go. It' s very simple. Hold on to nothing. It is as though you are walking down a road. Periodically you will run into obstacles. When you meet defilements, just see them and just overcome them by letting
go of them. don't think about the obstacles you have passed already . Don't worry about those you have not yet seen. Stick to the present. Don't be concerned about the length of the road or about the destination. Everything is changing. Whatever you pass, do not cling to it. Eventually the mind will reach its natural balance where practice is automatic. All things will come and go of themselves. (Teachings of Ajahn Chah p. 76)
Some context for the Munindo quote:
[Munindo] characterised a practice centered on trust in a non-judgmental awareness of the present moment as ‘source-oriented’ practice, contrasting it to ‘goal-oriented’ striving. (p.7)


The satipatthana refrain is of interest, Analayo p. 111:
At this comparatively advanced stage satipatthana is practised for its own sake. With this shift in attitude, the goal and the act of meditation being to merge into one, since awareness and understanding are cultivated for the sake of developing ever more awareness and understanding. The practice of satipatthan becomes "effortless effort", so to speak, divested of goal-orientation and expectation. It is preciesly this way of contemplating tha tin turn enables one to proceed independently, "without clinging to anything in the world" of expiernece, as stipulated in the final part of the refrain"
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by pegembara »

So, Ajahns Chah and Munindo haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.

Sure they do. They are wise people.
Q: Have you ever looked at the Altar Sutra of the 6th Patriarch, Hui Neng?

Answer: Hui Neng's wisdom is very keen. It is very profound teaching,not easy for beginners to understand. But if you practise with our discipline and with patience, if you practise not-clinging, you will eventually understand. Once I had a disciple who stayed in a grass-roofed hut. It rained often that rainy season and one day a strong wind blew off half the roof. He did not bother to fix it, just let it rain in. Several days passed and I asked him about his hut. He said he was practising not-clinging. This is not-clinging without wisdom. It is about the same as the equanimity of a water buffalo. If you live a good life and live simply, if you are patient and unselfish, you will understand the wisdom of Hui Neng.

http://www.buddhanet.net/bodhiny2.htm
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Spiny Norman »

pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

Spiny Norman wrote:
pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?
The primary context, it seems to me, of the two OP quotes is meditation practice.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by Spiny Norman »

tiltbillings wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?
The primary context, it seems to me, of the two OP quotes is meditation practice.
Certainly the first one, though I think the second has application both on and off the cushion.
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tiltbillings
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Re: judgment-free awareness

Post by tiltbillings »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Certainly the first one, though I think the second has application both on and off the cushion.
I would have said it the other way round.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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