Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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cooran
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by cooran » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:06 am

Hello all,

These may be of interest:

Buddhism and the God Idea ~ Nyanaponika Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... didea.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buddhism and the God-Idea ~ Ven. S. Dhammika
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The God Idea ~ Ven. K. Sri Dhammananda
http://mail.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebdha019.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:50 pm

Remember the argument here isn't that Buddhists need a "God" concept but theists certainly do.
And your way is the way to do it? Based upon what?
:offtopic:

http://home.comcast.net/~sonofman2/JEHOVAH.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:focus:

This was my best effort.

:namaste:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:54 pm

Son of man wrote:
Remember the argument here isn't that Buddhists need a "God" concept but theists certainly do.
And your way is the way to do it? Based upon what?
:offtopic:

http://home.comcast.net/~sonofman2/JEHOVAH.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



This was my best effort.
It really does not show much insight into the actual teachings of the Buddha, as we seen. Your link gives us a lot of bible quotes, but nothing to show how they supposedly relate to the Buddha's actual teachings.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:55 pm

Hey Son of man

hope you dont mind if i ask you some questions
The Father is the Buddha unbound
What does this mean?
What is the "father"?
Jesus entered into the Father's eternal glory becoming Christ
/

What does this mean?
Christ is the door to the Father's eternal kingdom
How is he?
Christ gives the Spirit of the Father to those who believe in him
So the rest can burn?
When the Spirit of the Father is received in us it is called the Holy Ghost
How do you know the Holy Ghost exists?
God is the unity of the Father, the Christ glorified in the Father, and the Holy Ghost in us
What created God?
The Father is greater than all
What does this mean?


metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:24 pm

clw_uk wrote:Hey Son of man

hope you dont mind if i ask you some questions
The Father is the Buddha unbound
What does this mean?
What is the "father"?
Jesus entered into the Father's eternal glory becoming Christ
/

What does this mean?
Christ is the door to the Father's eternal kingdom
How is he?
Christ gives the Spirit of the Father to those who believe in him
So the rest can burn?
When the Spirit of the Father is received in us it is called the Holy Ghost
How do you know the Holy Ghost exists?
God is the unity of the Father, the Christ glorified in the Father, and the Holy Ghost in us
What created God?
The Father is greater than all
What does this mean?

metta
The Father: the total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha

Jesus was Sariputta the spiritual son of the Blessed One Shakyamuni Buddha.

Jesus entered into the Father's eternal glory becoming Christ:

Metaphorically the only way I can answer is that it is the same metaphor that Sariputta gave of the gatekeeper [the dhamma] being the only way to the Castle [the deathless] only now the gateway and the castle is Sariputta [Jesus] in unity with the total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha [The Father].

How do you know the Holy Ghost exists:
It wouldn't matter if I told you..you would still need to experience it for yourself to know.

What created God: The Absolute-Unfailing-Faith of the Son in the Father and his compassion for all to be eternally saved by the Father

The Father is greater than all: The total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha is Incorruptible, Immortal

:popcorn:

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:31 pm


It really does not show much insight into the actual teachings of the Buddha, as we seen. Your link gives us a lot of bible quotes, but nothing to show how they supposedly relate to the Buddha's actual teachings.
It isn't meant to show much insight into the actual teachings of the Buddha, that's what the Pali Cannon is for. What it IS meant to do is to ignite the spark of curiousity into the teachings of the Buddha :jumping:

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clw_uk
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:34 pm

The Father: the total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha

Jesus was Sariputta the spiritual son of the Blessed One Shakyamuni Buddha.

Jesus entered into the Father's eternal glory becoming Christ:

Metaphorically the only way I can answer is that it is the same metaphor that Sariputta gave of the gatekeeper [the dhamma] being the only way to the Castle [the deathless] only now the gateway and the castle is Sariputta [Jesus] in unity with the total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha [The Father].

How do you know the Holy Ghost exists:
It wouldn't matter if I told you..you would still need to experience it for yourself to know.

What created God: The Absolute-Unfailing-Faith of the Son in the Father and his compassion for all to be eternally saved by the Father

The Father is greater than all: The total unbinding of Shakyamuni Buddha is Incorruptible, Immortal

It seems you are just using Abrahamic terminology to express Dhamma (mostly), why not trust in the wisdom of the Buddha and use the terms he did. Terms that arent loaded with images and themes of immortal beings and souls (which go against Dhamma)?


Either that or your a christian trying to change Dhamma into Gods message?

metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

It seems you are just using Abrahamic terminology to express Dhamma (mostly), why not trust in the wisdom of the Buddha and use the terms he did. Terms that arent loaded with images and themes of immortal beings and souls (which go against Dhamma)?
Can you point me to the Theravada Buddhist teachings of the gods of the Pure Abode? Didn't Shakyamuni Buddha say that in his long journey to enlightenment that he had passed through all the rounds of rebirth except in the realm of the gods of the Pure Abode? And if he had been reborn there he never would have returned as Shakyamuni Buddha? Isn't the realm of the gods of the Pure Abode a place where beings eventually attain the deathless and non-returners?
Either that or your a christian trying to change Dhamma into Gods message?
Why not a buddhist trying to change Gods message into Dhamma?

:stirthepot:

:yingyang:

:rofl:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:47 pm

Son of man wrote:
Why not a buddhist trying to change Gods message into Dhamma?
There is no need.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:24 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Son of man wrote:
Why not a buddhist trying to change Gods message into Dhamma?
There is no need.
Only God, The Unknowable-Perfect-All-Beings-Are-Saved-To-Be, knows.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:47 am

Only God, The Unknowable-Perfect-All-Beings-Are-Saved-To-Be, knows.
Assuming there is such a thing, and there is no reason to assume that a thing exists outside one's imaginative hopes and fears.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Son of man
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Son of man » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:24 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Only God, The Unknowable-Perfect-All-Beings-Are-Saved-To-Be, knows.
Assuming there is such a thing, and there is no reason to assume that a thing exists outside one's imaginative hopes and fears.
The reason to believe that such a thing exists is not to assume that it exists, but rather because it is of noble belief, of right belief, and not out of fear either but out of compassion for all beings. Such a belief is called being mastered by the heart, and is the only reason when the Buddha let go of his mind of striving for enlightenment that his heart or his will for all beings, the will of God, got him enlightened IMO.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:37 pm

Son of man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Only God, The Unknowable-Perfect-All-Beings-Are-Saved-To-Be, knows.
Assuming there is such a thing, and there is no reason to assume that a thing exists outside one's imaginative hopes and fears.
Son of man wrote:The reason to believe that such a thing exists is not to assume that it exists, but rather because it is of noble belief, of right belief, and not out of fear either but out of compassion for all beings.
Not according to the Buddha.
Such a belief is called being mastered by the heart, and is the only reason when the Buddha let go of his mind of striving for enlightenment that his heart or his will for all beings, the will of God, got him enlightened IMO.
Not according to the Buddha.

I [the Buddha] am an all-transcender, an All-knower, unsullied in all
ideas, renouncing all, by craving ceasing freed, and this I owe to my
own insight. To whom should I point?
- Dh 353

Certainly not to a god. "The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God [anabhissaro]." MN II 68
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Jechbi
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by Jechbi » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:42 pm

Hey, man,

I think I understand what you're trying to do, but you have the wrong audience here. If you're trying to stretch a certain form of Christian theism to fit a Dhamma framework, almost nobody here is going to buy it, because the theism isn't relevant here, and meanwhile you're bending the framework.
Son of man wrote:All theistic religions believe that love is the key to understanding God, and that love is of God.
Seems like you're talking more about the notion of "pure potentiality" as described by Deepak Chopra in his popular books. So you might be going about this all the wrong way. Societies build the God notion based on the image of oneself. So the ideal God is the ideal self. Look for the underlying not-self teachings that are present in some (not all) theistic traditions. That's where it gets interesting. fwiw.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Who is GOD in Buddhism?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:47 pm

Jechbi wrote:Hey, man,

I think I understand what you're trying to do, but you have the wrong audience here. If you're trying to stretch a certain form of Christian theism to fit a Dhamma framework, almost nobody here is going to buy it, because the theism isn't relevant here, and meanwhile you're bending the framework.
Son of man wrote:All theistic religions believe that love is the key to understanding God, and that love is of God.
Seems like you're talking more about the notion of "pure potentiality" as described by Deepak Chopra in his popular books. So you might be going about this all the wrong way. Societies build the God notion based on the image of oneself. So the ideal God is the ideal self. Look for the underlying not-self teachings that are present in some (not all) theistic traditions. That's where it gets interesting. fwiw.
"The assumption that a God is the cause (of the world, etc.) is based on the false belief in the eternal self (atma,); but that belief has to be abandoned, if one has clearly understood that everything is impermanent and subject to suffering." - Abhidharmakosha 5, 8 vol IV, p 19
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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