Indrajala wrote:Robes don't make the monk. I would argue precepts don't make the monk either
Then the Venerable Upāli approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him:
“Bhante, on how many grounds has the Tathāgata prescribed the training rules for his disciples and recited the Pātimokkha?”
“It is, Upāli, on ten grounds that the Tathāgata has prescribed the training rules for his disciples and recited the Pātimokkha. What ten?
(1) For the well-being of the Saṅgha;
(2) for the ease of the Saṅgha;
(3) for keeping recalcitrant persons in check; ...
(4) so that well-behaved bhikkhus can dwell at ease;
(5) for the restraint of taints pertaining to this present life;
(6) for the dispelling of taints pertaining to future lives;
(7) so that those without confidence might gain confidence; and
(8) for increasing [the confidence] of those with confidence;
(9) for the continuation of the good Dhamma; and ....
(10) for promoting discipline.
“It is on these ten grounds that the Tathāgata has prescribed the training rules for his disciples and recited the Pātimokkha.” ~~ http://palicanon.org/index.php/sutta-pi ... y-iv-upali ~~
Indrajala wrote:Robes don't make the monk. I would argue precepts don't make the monk either. Renunciation of saṃsāra is what does.
equilibrium wrote:Indrajala wrote:Robes don't make the monk. I would argue precepts don't make the monk either. Renunciation of saṃsāra is what does.
The above is the most amazing reading in this website so far for me.....
It is not on the surface.....it is not what you follow.....it is whether you have crossed the line!.....the main point of it all!
SarathW wrote:Are you suggesting that I can realise Nirvana without following Eight Noble Path and not knowing Four Noble Truths?
lyndon taylor wrote:Indrajala, If you are as it seems a Mahayana buddhist, what are you doing on a Therevada forum putting down our scriptures and traditions, I think the Dharma wheel might be more receptive to this. Buddhism is built on a foundation of moral behaviour as exemplified by the precepts, further progress beyond the basics is not really possible without the ground work of the precepts and moral behaviour, If you think you have a better way perhaps you should start your own order.
lyndon taylor wrote:So your saying we need monks with less discipline, not more???? If being a monk was supposed to be easy, there would be eating after 12pm, sleeping with converts, jewelry and loud music playing at temples, some how I think things are just fine in Therevada traditions, maybe you should take your ideas to the mahayana community, they are much more likely to eat after 12 etc.
I'm simply saying that refraining from dinner, at least out in public in front of laypeople, isn't really relevant in today's world, at least outside Theravada countries where people maybe become emotionally compromised seeing a monk eat past noon (meanwhile they're testing out their new amulets on chickens).
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