Fabricators fabricate fabrications.

[Zom]

I think you are absolutely correct. I was thinking of some THING which is doing the fabricating and so I was wanting to use "fabricator" with its thinginess connotation and then having the mistaken notion that it was this thing which did the fabricating. This is an example of me indulging in a doctrine of self towards the fabricating going on in this context. I'm really glad you pointed out that there is no identifiable agent we can say does the fabricating....better to view it as bare process and not imagine some agent in there somewhere......and actually it may be that this is what Thannisarro had in mind because "fabrication" can have the meaning of the process of fabricating....

Not necessarily. There is, for example, a mind - and it cognizes. There is a body, and it moves. There are fabrications and they fabricate. And still - there is no self in them and they are not-self.

[chownah]

I think you are absolutely correct. I was thinking of some THING which is doing the fabricating and so I was wanting to use "fabricator" with its thinginess connotation and then having the mistaken notion that it was this thing which did the fabricating. This is an example of me indulging in a doctrine of self towards the fabricating going on in this context. I'm really glad you pointed out that there is no identifiable agent we can say does the fabricating....better to view it as bare process and not imagine some agent in there somewhere......and actually it may be that this is what Thannisarro had in mind because "fabrication" can have the meaning of the process of fabricating....

Not necessarily. There is, for example, a mind - and it cognizes. There is a body, and it moves. There are fabrications and they fabricate. And still - there is no self in them and they are not-self.

I think we have different views on this...but it might just be a difference in the meanings of words. For me it seems that to say, "There are fabrications and they fabricate," is inconsistent with, "there is no self in them and they are not-self."
chownah

[pegembara]

The bell is a series of processes as is the "one" who makes contact with the "bell". There is only the "eye" that sees, "ear" that hears etc.

"Lord, who makes contact?"

"Not a valid question," the Blessed One said. "I don't say 'makes contact.' If I were to say 'makes contact,' then 'Who makes contact?' would be a valid question. But I don't say that. When I don't say that, the valid question is 'From what as a requisite condition comes contact?' And the valid answer is, 'From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling.'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html