What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

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nyanasuci
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by nyanasuci » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 am

I think that you misunderstood the Sutta you are quoting:
SarathW wrote:'If I were to direct equanimity as pure & bright as this toward the dimension of the infinitude of space and to develop the mind along those lines, that would be fabricated.
It is the directing of the equanimity, the establishing of it, pure and bright, that it is 'fabricated', not the dimension of the infinite space.
Bhikkhu Hiriko - Ñāṇasuci

The experts do not say that one is a sage in this world because of view, or learning, or knowledge, Nanda.
I call them sages who wander without association, without affliction, without desire.

The Buddha, Sn.V.8.2 (1078)


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SarathW
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 am

Thank you Bhante for the clarification. :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by SarathW » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:42 pm

Another good discussion about this topic:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22134
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:22 am

Is luminous mind a developed mind or its luminosity be a prerequisite for developing the mind?
:thinking:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

NotMe
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by NotMe » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:00 pm

SarathW wrote:Is luminous mind a developed mind or its luminosity be a prerequisite for developing the mind?
:thinking:
There you go thinking again, Sarath. tsk tsk ...

It is the worldly mind - period. And yes, the mind is a prerequisite for developing it and it, the mind, is developed. Make sense?

The mind before luminosity is the mind unadulterated with the knowledge of the concepts: good and evil. Once good and evil were instilled in the mind - "The Shining" began. Our ignorance is the radiance of that perpetual motion machine - knowing - simply knowing. Knowing what? Its object: good and evil - basically the same coin, having two sides. Live in the edge of the coin - see both sides. Abandon the coin and its edge.

metta

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:25 am


SarathW
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by SarathW » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:54 am

Thanks Mike
I tend to agree with Ven. Sujato than the Ven. Thanissaro.
I think radiant consciousness is mainly a result of developed mind by Samatha meditation.
The Nibbana is the result of discernment development by Vipassana Meditattion.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by cobwith » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:54 pm

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Pure is water and it is defiled by waste.
Pure is water and it is cleansed from waste.
Water must be treated to be freed from waste.

Consciousness must be cleansed from what is willed, what is arranged, and what is obsessed over (SN 12.38) to recover its original radiance. And that is through the development of the mind. Not through further fabrications (sakhara), but through fabrications and intentions that help the subduing of the effluents.
Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing.
Here long & short
coarse & fine
fair & foul
name & form
are, without remnant,
brought to an end.
Of (the activity of) consciousness,
each is here brought to an end.
— DN 11
Mind is a wider subject. But luminosity seems to apply to it, at consciousness (viññaya) level and determinant/"fabrication" (sakhara) level. In other words, it seems that clean consciousness, and clean perception, feeling and thought, cleansed from their effluents, make up a luminous (developed) mind. "Making up" in the sense that it reaches back its original state.
I would guess that the mind is going through Akuppa-cetovimutti (unshakable/unprovokable deliverance of mind;) the ultimate awareness (mind)-release; and that this release is luminous.
Last edited by cobwith on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Aloka
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by Aloka » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:42 am

In "The Island" by Ajahn Pasanno & Ajahn Amaro, there's a section on "Radiance" in chapter 12 "Knowing Emptiness and the Radiant Mind."

http://cdn.amaravati.org/wp-content/upl ... e_2015.pdf


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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by cobwith » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:55 pm

Loved that sutta (thanks Aloka):
Buddha wrote: “Bhikkhus, this mind is radiant, but it doesn’t show its radiance because passing defilements come and obscure it.
(Pabhassaramidam bhikkhave cittam, tañca kho agantukehi upakkilesehi upakkilittham).
The unwise, ordinary person does not understand this as it is, therefore there is no mind development in the unwise, ordinary person.
“Bhikkhus, this mind is radiant, it shows its radiance when it is unobscured by passing defilements. The wise, noble disciple understands this as it is, therefore there is mind development in the wise, noble disciple.”
~ A 1.61 & .62
The radiance of wisdom (paññapabha).
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

SarathW
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by SarathW » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:43 pm

So then, what sort of thought are arising in the radiant consciousness.
Why they do not cloud the radiance of the consciousness?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by cobwith » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:05 pm

SarathW wrote:So then, what sort of thought are arising in the radiant consciousness.
Why they do not cloud the radiance of the consciousness?
I suppose that, at that level of Akuppa-cetovimutti (please, see the two links in my previous post,) consciousness is unprovoked with the thoughts coming from the nama/rupa khanda. Namely, the thoughts made (mostly) of intentions (cetana,) and mental attentions (manasikāra).

The only "thoughts" that are still arising (and still defiling somewhat) the radiance of consciousness is the Thinking/pondering (verbal determination - Vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro) coming from Saṅkhārā (see Paticcasamuppada). It is still defiling the radiance of consciousness, because there is still the possibility of saṃsāra. And this possibility of verbal expression, terminology and designation, is inherent to the fact of a still existing Vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro.

Bhudda wrote: Here consciousness is non-manifestive (has no feature) (abhisaṅkhata viññāṇa) .
...
"Name as well as form are without remnant (are held in check with no trace left)" (ettha nāmañca rūpañca asesaṁ uparujjhati).
DN11
Abhisaṅkhata viññāṇa has been wiped off. Only what comes from Saṅkhārā khanda is left (anidassana viññāṇa).
Metta.
Last edited by cobwith on Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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phil
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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by phil » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:47 am

Bhavanga, right? That's what the classical texts say and this section is ( if I understood correctly ) for what Abhidhamma and the other classical texts say.

Is there an explanation in the ancient texts other than bhavanga? I'd be happy to drop the bhavanga explanation since it isn't pleasing to the cittas that would like to have something more attainable to go for. But the texts say luminous mind means bhavanga, right?
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:57 am

phil wrote:But the texts say luminous mind means bhavanga, right?
Yes, that is indeed what the commentaries define it as.

Which means that several of the posts in this thread are not at all in line with the rules for the Abhidhamma and Classical Theravada forums. A quick reminder for anyone posting here:

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    Posts should also include support from a reference, a citation (Tipitaka, commentarial, or from a later work from an author representative of the Classical point-of-view).

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Re: What does it mean by radiant consciousness?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:11 pm

Though it is difficult to quote from scripts I understand that vingana without defilements makes the path for a radiant consciousness. With Nibbana nobody speaks of a radiant consciousness.

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