Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

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clw_uk
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Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:59 am

Hey


Just creating this thread to clear up the Tobacco one



metta
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Cittasanto
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:03 am

Monkey picks up poop, on first throw hits target on second throw missed target, still has poop on his hand, on realising slaps his own face!

in other words make sure you defend truth with nothing other than truth otherwise you are doing nothing other than distorting truth.

you both (tilt and clw) have shared personal views and opinions which are not necesarilly true in defence of your side! so how is that not distorting the truth?
or is truth personal opinions about a theories effect with no actual proof? or what some supposed intelectuals say?

Ehipassiko see for yourself
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:04 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Manapa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:How accurate, Manapa, is Expelled - no inteligence allowed?
not sure irony maybe?
No, a straightforward question.
so what is the question?

EDIT
seames more like a statement?
Last edited by Cittasanto on Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Ben
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Ben » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:13 am

ok guys
electro-macrame complete!
Cheers

Ben

EDIT: Ignore the previous individual post titles, we're actually in 'Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:33 am

Manapa wrote:
so what is the question?
How accurate, Manapa, is Expelled - no inteligence allowed?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:38 am

try putting it in another way?
as that is still more of a statement than a question
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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tiltbillings
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:43 am

Manapa wrote:try putting it in another way?
as that is still more of a statement than a question
It is a question, asking: how accurate is that film?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:16 am

depends on what you are looking at?

if you are looking at it as expounding the truth of evolution and ID then as it doesn't claim to do this or be for this purpose then not at all, but it isn't ment to be.

if you are looking at it as expounding the truth of the agrument between the two needing sorting out [and the treatment of those who give an creadibility or accept ID] then very, although lob-sided, [and in all probability emphasising the negative] it still gets the point accross, unfortunately this sort of documentary needed to be lob-sided, as saying more open debate and shared findings would of gone unheard as there are other more general calls for the same [in other areas, and the closed minded opinions of leading people on the evolution side see some of CLW's comments for an example].

in science suppression of views before proof is there to support it as rubish or truth is entierly wrong, it would be like the Buddha saying don't see for yourself just accept.

edits in square brackets []
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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tiltbillings
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:38 am

sorting out
Creationism and its more refined variation of intelligent design are not science. They are religion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Mawkish1983
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Mawkish1983 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:42 am

I'm not sure if I understand this thread and I don't know what video is being referred to, at can I just bed two thoughts I had?

1. I am a scientist. We don't sit around a table trying to work out how to suppress any view that doesn't match our own, we sit around a table to discuss experiments that have been done and thier results, experiments in progress and experiments we'd like to do and predicted results. When something unexpected comes up, we discuss it. Sometimes in these internet forums I get the idea people think we are evil white-coated illuminati trying to rule the world. That brings me on to the second point.

2. Why is this discussion happening in a Theravada forum at all? Isn't this wrong speech? Is this beneficial to practice? Are we going to personally gain from this thread, are we going to change the world?

That's all I have to say about that. This whole thread seems like another "here we go again" topic to me.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:52 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:I'm not sure if I understand this thread and I don't know what video is being referred to, at can I just bed two thoughts I had?
This drivel: Expelled - no intelligence allowed.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:02 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:Sometimes in these internet forums I get the idea people think we are evil white-coated illuminati trying to rule the world. That brings me on to the second point.
Image
The lasers are in the lab
The old man is dressed in white clothes
Everybody says he's mad
No one knows the things that he knows.

Neil Young
http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/N/neilyo ... lyrics.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Ben
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by Ben » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:11 am

Excellent, Mike!
I love 'Sedan Delivery'!
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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clw_uk
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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:18 pm

2. Why is this discussion happening in a Theravada forum at all? Isn't this wrong speech? Is this beneficial to practice? Are we going to personally gain from this thread, are we going to change the world?

The thread was created because someone mentioned a film that involved said debate. I havent seen any evidence of wrong speech here




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Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design/Creationism

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:29 pm

if you are looking at it as expounding the truth of the agrument between the two needing sorting out [and the treatment of those who give an creadibility or accept ID] then very, although lob-sided, [and in all probability emphasising the negative] it still gets the point accross, unfortunately this sort of documentary needed to be lob-sided, as saying more open debate and shared findings would of gone unheard as there are other more general calls for the same [in other areas, and the closed minded opinions of leading people on the evolution side see some of CLW's comments for an example].

in science suppression of views before proof is there to support it as rubish or truth is entierly wrong, it would be like the Buddha saying don't see for yourself just accept.


You seem to be missing the whole point. First of all ID doesnt belong in science its a topic for philosophy and religion only. Iders cant bear this so they try to cram it into the science class where it doesnt belong. Also science is actually humble enough to say "we dont know" instead of the arrogance of the IDers claiming they know it was god

Look at it this way, the idea of "god did it" isnt falsifiable


ID is not science, IDers are trying to push for the doctrine of "god did it" in class rooms. Saying God did it isnt science its a personal belief


For all this moaning the creationists do i have never seen them produce any scientific evidence for their claim. Their arguments come down to they think its a god

Thats why they are pushed out because they dont want to teach science they just want to preach their own beliefs

As i said earlier if you allow ID to be taught as science then you retard human knowledge since you shield the truth


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