I agree that they're not convincing. I think those who are not prepared to accept Rebirth and Kamma often still put themselves and their own intellect above that of the Buddha, or at the very least on the same level. It is a subtle conceit, but logically it denies the fact that the Buddha was enlightened and the person is deluded by avijja. We're wandering around in the dark here and I do find it laughable that some have the conceit to think they know better than the Buddha, or at the very least that their views are just as valuable as the Tathagata's
Or maybe they understand it in a different way than you do, oh and do so without being conceited know it alls who think they are more intelligent than everyone else (ever thought they are just trying to understand Dhamma as well?)
All you have done here is try to invalidate my posts by trying to imply I just think of my self as superior to the Buddha, or on the same intellect as him. Play the ball not the man please.
Of course I do not mean to lump all those who do not accept rebirth in this category.
Could have fooled me
Personally I don't think everyone who is an annihilationist has aversion, but they most certainly have wrong view, and more wrong view than those who accept kamma and rebirth.
Now your trying to imply I'm an annihilationist, or people who post the same as me are. Why do you assume
we are? I have never said I am one, or ever posted anything that is pro-annihilationist
I think there is a tendency to disregard this important statement the Buddha has made, i.e. That annihilationism is wrong view. Furthermore mundane right view is known as a belief in kamma and rebirth.
Tainted mundane view yes
So frankly I don't think it's correct for these people to call themselves a follower of the Buddha's teachings. Because following requires submission, which is something they refuse to do,
this isnt Roman Catholicism
they would rather make the Buddha Dhamma fit with their predilections than make their predilections fit with the Buddha Dhamma. Perhaps they can say that they are a practitioner of meditation and they have an interest in Buddhism, but they have not taken refuge in my view - That requires submission of one's own views regarding that which cannot be directly seen for oneself - Rebirth and Kamma.
Very bold statements
Rebirth skeptics seem to feel as though they can surgically remove rebirth and kamma from the Buddha's teachings the way one might remove an appendix, but this is not the case. Removing rebirth and kamma from the Buddha's teachings is like removing the lungs.
We are not doing such a thing, when I have said Rebirth wasnt taught by Buddha? The meaning and purpose of it is where we disagree
I don't think you can be a real Buddhist and not believe in rebirth and kamma - You're cutting away vast swathes of the nikayas, entire suttas fall under the knife of rebirth skepticism. It is a slippery slope I'm afraid - Once you start butchering up something that the Buddha has already declared is free of patchwork, you've crossed the rubicon, and why stop at rebirth and kamma, why not reinterpret anything else that poses difficulties, that disagrees with your own predilections? It would certainly become easier to do after the initial rejection.
So you decide who is a Buddhist?
What's the point striving for nibbana when you can just wait for death to come along and you'll get the same thing.
Your just jumping from one net of views to another
For those of us who believe the Buddha's teaching on rebirth - We need to strive and put forth great effort, because death is coming and we could be reborn anywhere. But for those who don't? What's the rush? You can just meditate and you can live comfortably, and maybe it would be cool to reach sotapatti because hey - that's a novelty too, but really? What's the point, why bother - When death will be the release from experience anyway.
Because if rebirth is true or not dukkha is here now
I really wish you rebirth skeptics were right. Things would be a lot easier. But I think the Buddha knows best.
I dont think you even know what it is that "rebirth skeptics" argue
Your posts are muddled and just argue past what I have been posting