Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Kumara
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Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Kumara » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:35 am

In recent years, I hear people, Buddhists included, encouraging people to neuter or spay animals. Some Buddhist even raise funds for it. What do you all think about this?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:42 am

It is not very kind, but it's a lot better than the alternative, which is to drown cats and puppies as soon as they are born, or round up and kill thousands of strays to prevent the spread of rabies.

Of course, if you don't keep pets then you won't face this dilemma, and the one that comes at the end of an animal's life when it is suffering great pain from some terminal disease and needs to be euthanised.
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Ben
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Ben » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:49 am

If you have ever been to Myanmar you will witness the legions of stray dogs, cats and chickens roaming the streets.
The vast majority of them are starving and diseased.
I think it is far more ethical to neuter an animal than it is to allow it to have litters of offspring which are destroyed or live short, miserable and feral lives.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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BlackBird
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by BlackBird » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:58 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:needs to be euthanised.
I am not suggesting that there is any implication of you speaking in favour of euthanasia in your post Bhante, but I would argue it is not a need at all, at least not in all cases and I would think there are cases where the pet could live on and see out a natural death as nature intended without human intervention. Naturally it's not black and white, it's a shade of grey, so I think these things merit a case by case example.



As to the OP Absolutely. Neutering pets is very important if you're not intending to breed them, and an important question people should ask themselves is if they refuse to neuter their pet and it's a female - Could you ensure a home for all of the offspring? If it's a male it's not fair on other pet owners that your pet is running round the neighbourhood impregnating them and leaving them with tough decisions to make.

Pretty simple.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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BlackBird
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by BlackBird » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:05 am

Ben wrote:If you have ever been to Myanmar you will witness the legions of stray dogs, cats and chickens roaming the streets.
The vast majority of them are starving and diseased.
I think it is far more ethical to neuter an animal than it is to allow it to have litters of offspring which are destroyed or live short, miserable and feral lives.
kind regards,

Ben
I saw this in the monastery at Meetirigala in Sri Lanka. Poor mangey dogs, scratching all day long - Some had very little hair left, the mange had taken care of that, either that or they'd bitten and scratched it out, as they spent most of their downtime scratching. There was this cute wee pup that was born just before I arrived, and it would run along behind me quite often when I was walking from one place to another. It was a sweet little critter. One day I found it dying, it had been attacked by the monkeys. I told one of the monastery stewards in broken singhalese and he went out and killed it with a spade much to my displeasure as I hadn't intended on influencing the man to take the life of an animal (as I assumed was a breech of precepts he had undertaken in order to be a living on the grounds)

Later that week I saw two of the older dogs of the pack caught up in a genital knot, as is common with dogs after mating. The poor things were looking very anxious and really just wanted to be seperated. The mother would give birth to a new litter of pups in time to come, and those pups would be skinny and under fed like their mum, struggling to make it by off the scraps they would get from leftovers, getting attacked by monkeys who wanted the food more, itching and scratching all day because of the mange

Life was not easy for these dogs, I wish someone would pay to have them neutered.

This is what they looked like:
Image
Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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daverupa
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by daverupa » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:08 am

In addition to the nasty, brutish, and short feral lives which await the offspring of urban animals who haven't been spayed or neutered, many animals taken to shelters and later euthanized are the unwanted offspring of family pets. Millions each year in the United States alone.

Overpopulation is a critical issue; beyond spaying and neutering there is no birth control for these animals, only increased suffering and increased mortality numbers. It is an ethical obligation to address this problem on their behalf (cats, dogs, rabbits, pets generally) given that they have thrown in their lot with us.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Ben
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Ben » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:21 am

Jack - I agree with you entirely. I also witnessed similar scenes in Myanmar. Really awful stuff.

Dave - I agree entirely. I believe it is an ethical obligation on us to ensure that domestic animals are neutered.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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BlackBird
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by BlackBird » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:32 am

Ben wrote:Jack - I agree with you entirely. I also witnessed similar scenes in Myanmar. Really awful stuff.
Yes it's a far cry from the ubiquitous family Labrador of our Australasian suburban habitat. I really would love to get involved in a charity that just does this, just goes to 3rd world nations and pays to neuter strays. I think it's a very effective way to humanely ensure less suffering for these beings.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Aloka
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:51 am

In recent years, I hear people, Buddhists included, encouraging people to neuter or spay animals. Some Buddhist even raise funds for it. What do you all think about this?

When I was a child my grandmother used to drown the frequent litters of kittens born to her female cat. I can remember the shock I felt when having stroked and admired some of the kittens previously, I finally understood what that meant.

Yes we should spay and neuter animals, they recover quickly from the operation and in the case of females, live longer lives when their bodies haven't been worn out with so many births and young to feed.

Humans get various kinds of operations which prevent reproduction and also use birth control methods. I don't see what's wrong with preventing the births of many stray or unwanted animals which get very sick or are killed by humans.

barcsimalsi
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by barcsimalsi » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:52 am

BlackBird wrote:
I saw this in the monastery at Meetirigala in Sri Lanka. Poor mangey dogs, scratching all day long...
This is what they looked like:
Image
Stray dogs are common in Asian monastery and temples, there were many dog owners who didn't want their pets for whatever reasons but can't afford to throw them at the roadside so they brought them to wats.

If we look at the photo below, it is so ironic that these man eating tigers are treated 10 times better than any man best friends in every wat you can find.
Image
Not even a spot of mange:
Image

Back to topic, i don't see anything wrong with spaying animals.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:31 pm

What about neutering and spaying humans, seems like a good idea to me, as long as its voluntary!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Ben
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Ben » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:34 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:What about neutering and spaying humans, seems like a good idea to me, as long as its voluntary!!!
People are doing that already. Its known as vascectomy for men and tubal ligation for the women.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Aloka
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:47 pm

barcsimalsi wrote: If we look at the photo below, it is so ironic that these man eating tigers are treated 10 times better than any man best friends in every wat you can find.
Not according to the investigations which were made by Care for the Wild InternationaL

"Tiger Temple, Thailand – the Truth Behind the Mask"

http://www.careforthewild.com/what-we-d ... the-truth/

.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:52 pm

Ben wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:What about neutering and spaying humans, seems like a good idea to me, as long as its voluntary!!!
People are doing that already. Its known as vascectomy for men and tubal ligation for the women.
I know full well, I'm living proof of the success of that operation, I can only encourage others to consider it!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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manas
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Re: Should We Neuter or Spay Animals?

Post by manas » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:39 pm

It's a difficult call to make, because in a sense we are infringing on the body of our pet, by having their private parts either removed, snipped or otherwise modified. So in an ultimate sense it's kind of unwholesome, I mean how would we like having that done, without having any say in the matter whatsoever? We wouldn't. Yet as a 'superior species' we have no qualms about imposing this on animals, because they are 'just animals'...

And yet, I can see the problem with so many uncared for litters ending up as starving and diseased strays, etc. So neutering seems like the better of two evils. Maybe the only perfect solution is indeed not to have a pet in the first place.

:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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