On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
danieLion
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by danieLion » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:39 am

In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?

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cooran
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by cooran » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:50 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:09 am

Gaoxing wrote: It's best to just take the damn shoe off because no matter where you tread it sticks and strings.
The problem is you cannot simply take off your shoe.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Gaoxing
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:17 am

danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
Parivatta Sutta
Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
Maha-nidana Sutta

Have you read the Abhidamma?
Last edited by Gaoxing on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gaoxing
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:19 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Gaoxing wrote: It's best to just take the damn shoe off because no matter where you tread it sticks and strings.
The problem is you cannot simply take off your shoe.
:cry: :clap:

binocular
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by binocular » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:41 am

danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
I'd like you to explain this, please.

That sutta only says that form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness - that that which is impermanent, unsatisfactory, subject to change, is not proper to regard as 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'.
That is all it says.
And several other suttas make the same point.

binocular
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by binocular » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:51 am

tiltbillings wrote:Then you did not make your point very clear in the above msg.
Or you didn't read it with enough clarity.
:shrug:

Also, until you reach into the ariya levels, you are going to have a view about "who you really are" whether you want it or not.
And you'll be there to tell me that?
:ugeek:

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Gaoxing
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:52 am

binocular wrote:
danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
I'd like you to explain this, please.

That sutta only says that form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness - that that which is impermanent, unsatisfactory, subject to change, is not proper to regard as 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'.
That is all it says.
And several other suttas make the same point.
OK so what is self then? Does the Buddha say in any sutta what the self is?

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tiltbillings
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:56 am

binocular wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Then you did not make your point very clear in the above msg.
Or you didn't read it with enough clarity.
It is hard to read with clarity that which is written without clarity.

Also, until you reach into the ariya levels, you are going to have a view about "who you really are" whether you want it or not.
And you'll be there to tell me that?
It seems I need not have to worry about it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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cooran
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by cooran » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:57 am

I think Dr. Mendis' article is quite clear. There is no self or soul in the Aggregates,nor is there one separate to, or standing behind the Aggregates, in the Teachings of the Blessed One.

Karuna,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

danieLion
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by danieLion » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:07 am

The Buddha doesn't say there is no self in that sutta.

danieLion
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by danieLion » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:14 am

Gaoxing wrote:
danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
Parivatta Sutta
Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
Maha-nidana Sutta

Have you read the Abhidamma?
The Buddha doesn't say there is no self in any of those suttas or the the parts fo the Abhidhamma I've read. Maybe it's in one of the parts I haven't read? Can you cite those parts for me?
Kindly,
dL

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Gaoxing
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:28 am

danieLion wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:
danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
Parivatta Sutta
Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
Maha-nidana Sutta

Have you read the Abhidamma?
The Buddha doesn't say there is no self in any of those suttas or the the parts fo the Abhidhamma I've read. Maybe it's in one of the parts I haven't read? Can you cite those parts for me?
Kindly,
dL
Why do you say he doesn't say there is no self? How and where does he ever say there is a self?

danieLion
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by danieLion » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:51 am

Gaoxing wrote:
binocular wrote:
danieLion wrote:In which sutta(s) does the Buddha teach that there is no self?
I'd like you to explain this, please.

That sutta only says that form, feeling, perception, mental formations, consciousness - that that which is impermanent, unsatisfactory, subject to change, is not proper to regard as 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'.
That is all it says.
And several other suttas make the same point.
OK so what is self then? Does the Buddha say in any sutta what the self is?
In AN 3.40 the self is one of our governing principles. In SN 22.34, 47.13 and DN 16, the self is a refuge/light/island. In Khp 8 the self controls. In Dhp 160 the self is a mainstay; in Dhp 165, it is that which we do evil by and that which purifies; in Dhp 379 it reproves, examines, guards. In Ud 5.1 it is our dearest love (fiercely so). In Iti 1.33 it is that which Awakens. In Sn 4.4 it's that which we let go of; in Sn 4.14 it is conjured, swells, and then witnesses the Dhamma. In Thag 3.14 it is that which knows the ways we are born.

danieLion
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Re: On Thanissaro Bhikkhu's anatta teachings

Post by danieLion » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:53 am

Gaoxing wrote:Why do you say he doesn't say there is no self? How and where does he ever say there is a self?
Can you cite one passage where he utters the phrase, "There is no self?" Those passages you cited don't even come close.
Kindly,
dL

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