Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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binocular
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by binocular » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:43 pm

Ben wrote:Q: Is MARRIAGE a vehicle (yana) to take a person to its liberation?
I think that depends entirely on what one believes marriage to be, and according to what values and beliefs one engages in it.

Marriage according to modern consumerist values and beliefs? No, I don't think that one has anything conducive to do with making an end to suffering.

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binocular
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by binocular » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:04 pm

kirk5a wrote: Where does he get "naturally empties lust from the minds of the couple" from?
Because in time, sexual lust turns to boredom, contempt and lust for chocolate. :yingyang:

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manas
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by manas » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:49 pm

Is the Pope a Pagan?
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by Lazy_eye » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:11 am

manas wrote:Is the Pope a Pagan?
In some ways, yes. He observes rituals and ceremonies that have a pagan origin, and worships a Mother Goddess. :)

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Gaoxing
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:01 am

Sekha wrote:I just realized that there are two questions, which are actually quite different.

1) Is marriage a path to Nibbana? (understood: is it possible to attain Nibbana while being married) - Yes.

2) Is marriage a VEHICLE to Nibbana? - No.
Performing one's duties in the context of marriage can be part of the vehicle to Nibbana, but it is evident that it is not the whole thing. Otherwise a Buddha would teach that the way to Nibbana is to get married. And there would be many more arahants.
But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 am

Greetings,
binocular wrote:
kirk5a wrote: Where does he get "naturally empties lust from the minds of the couple" from?
Because in time, sexual lust turns to boredom, contempt and lust for chocolate. :yingyang:
:clap:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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PadmaPhala
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:34 am

chocolate or icecream.

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PadmaPhala
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:36 am

a marriage among two anagamis, yes.

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manas
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by manas » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:58 am

I can recall sitting at this table of married men, and we were talking about life and stuff. Anyway I had been single for some time (again), and I said to them "you guys are all lucky, you have a woman in your life. I am sexually frustrated, I'm not getting any at all" to which they replied almost in unison, "Neither are we!"

I think marriage could be a happy long-term situation, if both parties were really good friends, were capable of a bit of detachment from sense desires, and were of course on the same life path. Otherwise, I mostly see frustration (or boredom as was mentioned above) in alot of married folks I know. Not much 'Nibbana'. lol

:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by barcsimalsi » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:28 am

Ben wrote: -Marriage is a vow to dissolve the self and become two.
It sounds like polygamy will further dissolve the self.
Ben wrote:-Marriage is a system in which you practice to love, care, respect your counterpart thus help dissolve EGO.
Not if someone start to harass thy wife and being a patriarch is like reinforcing the ego itself. I was speaking on the behalf of the male counterpart.
Ben wrote:-Marriage brings a joy of creation of another life (offspring), watch them grow, take a form, experience working of Sanskaras and karma.
And those joy will turn to anxiety when something bad happen to the offspring or perhaps this will give more insights on the 4nt.

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by binocular » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:15 am

Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?
Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by Sekha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:18 am

Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?
The difference between "path" and "vehicle" here is that "marriage is a path" IMO would be interpreted as meaning that marriage is something that can eventually lead to Nibbana (as a path may eventually lead somewhere specific), whereas "marriage is a vehicle" would rather be interpreted as meaning that marriage would be something that will lead one all the way to Nibbana (as a vehicle is understood as something that leads one all the way to one's destination). So in your example, the correct conclusion would rather be "marriage is a kind of path", just like I said. :smile:

Also, in your logic it looks very much like you equate running for a monastery and being secure on the path to Nibbana, which is an opinion that is widely spread in Asia and that makes itself happen to be false because monks are so inclined to think that going forth is by itself enough that they become heedless and actually stray from the path with painful future to be expected instead of Nibbana.
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Gaoxing
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:57 am

Sekha wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?
The difference between "path" and "vehicle" here is that "marriage is a path" IMO would be interpreted as meaning that marriage is something that can eventually lead to Nibbana (as a path may eventually lead somewhere specific), whereas "marriage is a vehicle" would rather be interpreted as meaning that marriage would be something that will lead one all the way to Nibbana (as a vehicle is understood as something that leads one all the way to one's destination). So in your example, the correct conclusion would rather be "marriage is a kind of path", just like I said. :smile:

Also, in your logic it looks very much like you equate running for a monastery and being secure on the path to Nibbana, which is an opinion that is widely spread in Asia and that makes itself happen to be false because monks are so inclined to think that going forth is by itself enough that they become heedless and actually stray from the path with painful future to be expected instead of Nibbana.
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by pegembara » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:39 am

The Buddha also took the path of marriage along the way to nibbana. So marriage can be a path for some and not so for others. But it must be said that that path will ultimately lead to the realisation that staying married in a conventional sense will not lead to nibbana.
"I, too, monks, before my Awakening, when I was an unawakened bodhisatta, being subject myself to birth, sought what was likewise subject to birth. Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, I sought [happiness in] what was likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement. The thought occurred to me, 'Why do I, being subject myself to birth, seek what is likewise subject to birth? Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, why do I seek what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement? What if I, being subject myself to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, were to seek the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding? What if I, being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, were to seek the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less,, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding?'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Mr Man
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Post by Mr Man » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 am

The reason for the institution that is marriage is not Nibbana.

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