ground wrote:You seem to confuse "being conditioned to perceive as X" on the one hand and the thought of "X being independent of perception" on the other hand. Since you cannot discern dependent arising of "perceiving as X" X appears to you as if being independent of "perception as X".
is not "being conditioned" to perceive X. Vipassana
is perceiving things as they really are. 'Perception' here is not ordinary perception (sanna
) but enlightened perception called fully comprehension (abhiññāya
), as I posted earlier. Abhiññāya
is not an 'idea'.
I am certainly asserting a reality independent of perception, as Buddha did in AN 3.134
. I understand, predictably, you will possibly attempt to refute this will other suttas, such as the Sabba Sutta.
Vipassana (seeing things as they really are) does not occur independent of perception. However, those realities that are objects of vipassana are occurring independent of perception. For example, bacteria decaying physical matter is occurring independent of perception, i.e., unless one uses a microscope to perceive those bacteria. This principle Buddha established in AN 3.134
Vipassana is seeing things as they really are. It is not seeing things as the mind subjectively perceives things to be. MN 152
is about mastery of perception, where "he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of what is not loathsome", etc. But MN 152 does not extend to "he remains percipient of the impermanent in the presence of what is permanent"; "he remains percipient of self in the presence of what is not self"; etc.
In summary, the mind truly free from attachment, will not take so seriously, i.e., regard as a 'creator God', its perceptions. In the Phena Sutta, it is explained, ultimately, perceptions have no substance
; they are like a mirage. But the Biblical Genesis seems to be about creation via perception. You have made it quite clear that the process of 'creation' is important to you.
In AN 3.134
, it explained impermanence, unsatisfactoriness & not-self existed prior to Buddha's perception of them. Where as your point of view appears to align with that of the Biblical Genesis, that is, before perception, the earth was (literally) formless and empty.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.