tiltbillings wrote: robertk wrote:
The title of this thread is Causes for wisdom
Suttas have already been cited showing that the prime causes for wisdom are hearing and contemplation of the Dhamma. This sutta adds to the discussion by showing that listening to the Dhamma leads to the attainment of nibbana.
It underlines the crucial importance of right view in the path.
Yes, very choice driven behaviors, all. And, of course, listening is followed by the choice to put into practice, by doing, what the Buddha taught, as has been carefully explained and shown to be so via the suttas, and pretty much most, if not all, of the texts you yourself have quoted.
Dear Tilt and others,
The issue is not whether there's a choice in the conventional sense or not, but to understand that the choice is also conditioned, not "I", me, or mine. Do you agree that choice is conditioned?
When members here read our (Sujin's students) emphasis on the conditioned aspects of dhammas, many might think that the result of it is non-action. How can there be non-action? We all do this or that unless we are paralized, blind and deaf all at the same time.
What we have been trying to show, is that, regardless what one choose to do, it is not the doing, but the right understanding which can be said to cultivate the Path.
There have been many arguments that we have to do, to practice, to make efforts in order for understanding to arise. We, on the other hand, has shown that the cause of right understanding doesn't come from the doing, whatever is is, but from hearing the right teaching and wise consideration of it. It is the words of the Buddha him-self.
The understanding gained from hearing the teaching can go from the intellectual level to the direct level, if there is studying the dhammas as they appear again and again. However, right at the beginning, there should be the clear understanding that it is not "a self" who does the studying, but it is a dhamma which is conditioned by previous hearing and considering which, at some particular point arises and is aware. If this understanding is not firm, there will always be idea of "I" trying to be aware or to observe, and the non-self nature of the reality which is aware can not be known. We can not determine when this dhamma studying, this awareness will occur, since they depend on conditions to arise. So if we can not determine when, why there would be the idea of formal meditation? Can we decide that during that particular time there will be awareness? If we think we can, isn't it the idea of a self who can make some dhammas to arise at will?
If we don't believe that hearing the Dhamma and wise considering alone can condition direct understanding later, does that mean we don't really trust the Buddha's words and the power of his teaching ?
Wise considering is difficult, most diffcult.