Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Spiny Norman
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Spiny Norman »

past is dead wrote:I don't believe, but that does not mean that they don't exist. Maybe my belief will change as my understanding deepens with time and practice :)
There is no need to believe in these things, but also no need to disbelieve either.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Mojo
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Mojo »

I've met people of all different temperments.
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Mindstar
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Mindstar »

Through my investigation in the topic i belive that Ghosts, Devas and Brahmas exist in a multidimensional universe.
The term Deva refers to a being that exists on a higher dimensional level of reality.
So called "extraterestrials" would only be devas if they were able to travel multidimensionally.

You might want to check out Steven Greers new Documentary if you want to have a serious investigation on the topic:
“Sirius” from Emmy Award winning director Amardeep Kaleka (“Neverending Light”), producer J.D Seraphine and narrated by actor Thomas Jane (“Hung”) will have a gala celebrity premiere on April 22 in Hollywood followed by a limited national theatrical release on April 24.

The explosive documentary deals with the subject of UFO disclosure and clean energy. “Sirius” was also one of the most successful crowd funding initiatives ever produced. The film includes Government and Military witnesses to the UFO secrecy, explains the connection to Free Energy and provides the vision of Contact with ET Civilizations as witnessed by the CE-5 contact teams. Never before has this wealth of information and footage been shown to the public.

“This really is the greatest story never told” says Dr. Greer, “Once people understand that classified projects have figured out how UFO’s operate, they will realize we no longer need oil, coal and nuclear power. This is the truth that has driven the secrecy.”

According to Thomas Jane, “The Sirius documentary is a powerful and important film that I encourage everyone to watch with an open mind as it truly speaks to the heart of the people who, like me, are probably okay with the government keeping secrets from its people in the name of national security, but is not okay with a secret government.”

“Given the possibility that there was something profound to explore here – something that could potentially open minds to new realms and new possibilities – we seized the opportunity to take on this project. For every story we told, we found hundreds of others. Our goal is to initiate our audience on the same journey – to open their minds and inspire them to search – and freely consider that there is more in this world than we may ever know” adds director Kaleka.


ABOUT THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT:


The Disclosure Project is a research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems

They have the testimony of over 100 government, military and intelligence witnesses on file testifying to their direct, personal, firsthand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret. There are hundreds more who have witnessed similar events.

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
mogg
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by mogg »

Mindstar wrote:Through my investigation in the topic i belive that Ghosts, Devas and Brahmas exist in a multidimensional universe.
The term Deva refers to a being that exists on a higher dimensional level of reality.
So called "extraterestrials" would only be devas if they were able to travel multidimensionally.

You might want to check out Steven Greers new Documentary if you want to have a serious investigation on the topic:
“Sirius” from Emmy Award winning director Amardeep Kaleka (“Neverending Light”), producer J.D Seraphine and narrated by actor Thomas Jane (“Hung”) will have a gala celebrity premiere on April 22 in Hollywood followed by a limited national theatrical release on April 24.

The explosive documentary deals with the subject of UFO disclosure and clean energy. “Sirius” was also one of the most successful crowd funding initiatives ever produced. The film includes Government and Military witnesses to the UFO secrecy, explains the connection to Free Energy and provides the vision of Contact with ET Civilizations as witnessed by the CE-5 contact teams. Never before has this wealth of information and footage been shown to the public.

“This really is the greatest story never told” says Dr. Greer, “Once people understand that classified projects have figured out how UFO’s operate, they will realize we no longer need oil, coal and nuclear power. This is the truth that has driven the secrecy.”

According to Thomas Jane, “The Sirius documentary is a powerful and important film that I encourage everyone to watch with an open mind as it truly speaks to the heart of the people who, like me, are probably okay with the government keeping secrets from its people in the name of national security, but is not okay with a secret government.”

“Given the possibility that there was something profound to explore here – something that could potentially open minds to new realms and new possibilities – we seized the opportunity to take on this project. For every story we told, we found hundreds of others. Our goal is to initiate our audience on the same journey – to open their minds and inspire them to search – and freely consider that there is more in this world than we may ever know” adds director Kaleka.


ABOUT THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT:


The Disclosure Project is a research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems

They have the testimony of over 100 government, military and intelligence witnesses on file testifying to their direct, personal, firsthand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret. There are hundreds more who have witnessed similar events.
I will try to keep an open mind when watching this documentary, but I must confess, when I listen to this guy my BS detector lights up like a Xmas tree.
Digity
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Digity »

I give little thought to ghosts, devas and brahmas. My focus is more on what's in front of me.
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BlackBird
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by BlackBird »

I believe in the cosmology that the Buddha taught in the Suttas, thus I believe in Brahma, devas, ghosts and hell beings.
It won't stop you meditating, or practicing the Buddha's teachings if you don't believe in them. But I believe at a certain point you have to take the Buddha at his word, and surrender your own views in favour of those of the Buddha, realizing that one is ignorant of the truth, and the Buddha has known and seen. Until one is ready to submit that they are blind and ignorant - one can only progress so far. Rebirth is intricately tied to the teachings. If rebirth does not exist then one need only meditate enough to prevent the grosser manifestations of dukkha, and wait until death comes. In such a view death brings nibbana. This is a wrong view, in the Buddha's teachings. Buddhism doesn't make much sense without rebirth.

That is my view, and it appears to be right to me, but I cannot say anything for sure.
Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Aloka
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Aloka »

Digity wrote:I give little thought to ghosts, devas and brahmas. My focus is more on what's in front of me.
I totally agree.
steve19800
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by steve19800 »

past is dead wrote:Hello all

How many of you guys believe in ghosts, devas, and brahmas?

Do you think it's a must to believe in these supernatural deities in order to be a practitioner of Buddhism?

Can it hinders the progress in meditation?
No. They are completely different thing. The existence of other beings and your practice are two different things.
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Mindstar
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Mindstar »

Digity wrote:I give little thought to ghosts, devas and brahmas. My focus is more on what's in front of me.
Well its very true that it isnt usefull for the practice. I guess i just couldnt stop my curiosity :lol:

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
Digity
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Digity »

If the Buddha taught these things then I do take him for his word. So, in that sense I do believe in these forms of beings. However, I just leave it at that. I don't pray to the devas or anything of that nature.
whynotme
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by whynotme »

past is dead wrote:
whynotme wrote:
past is dead wrote:Hello all

How many of you guys believe in ghosts, devas, and brahmas?

Do you think it's a must to believe in these supernatural deities in order to be a practitioner of Buddhism?

Can it hinders the progress in meditation?
You should read kalama sutta, one of very best suttas out there.
I don't believe, but that does not mean that they don't exist. Maybe my belief will change as my understanding deepens with time and practice :)
Well, the kalama sutta isn't about believing or not, but keeping the right attitude about believing
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whynotme
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by whynotme »

Alex123 wrote:
past is dead wrote:How many of you guys believe in ghosts, devas, and brahmas? ?
I don't believe in them if their image is taken literally. But if given the proper evidence, I would.

Maybe a possible way to reconcile that with current science is that those are viruses and bacteria?

As for seeing ghosts, etc: How do we know that it is not hallucination? Hallucination can appear very real, and I don't doubt the honesty and sincerity of those who say that they have seen them.

Personally, if I would see a ghost - first I would make sure that I am not dreaming, second I would investigate what was in my tea/coffee...
You should doubt when there are clues to doubt. From what I knew, different people saw and described the same thing at the same location, so it must have some truths in it.

Yes, I agree with you that most people who claimed saw them are not honestly and want to add their ego to their stories, but with an opened mind to find out the truth, comparing them, analyzing them, one can get something in their stories. You can doubt, but you need to be smart. The credit of witnesses is not only the problem in religions, but on criminals, intelligence gathering as well. But in real worlds, police and intelligence officers can get a lot of valuable infos from not so good sources. It is not depended on sources, it depends on how you processed information.

I believe UFO and the phenomenons of spirit world are the same and only happens in conscious mind, that explained why there isn't any physical evidence, which physical measurement can't contact with them. Well, the basics question, what is conscious, is still unanswered despite being familiar with in daily experiences.
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Alex123
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Post by Alex123 »

whynotme wrote:You should doubt when there are clues to doubt. From what I knew, different people saw and described the same thing at the same location, so it must have some truths in it.
Similarity of hallucinations could be due to similarity in the way brain functions when under extreme circumstances, when oxygen/sense perception deprived, with chemicals affecting it...

Also it seems that Xtians during NDE experiences see Angels, Virgin Mary, Jesus etc. People of other beliefs see other beings...
Various religions can use visions to prove their religion.
whynotme wrote:Yes, I agree with you that most people who claimed saw them are not honestly
I think that many people can be honest and sincere about their hallucinations. These experiences can be very real. I had dreams about being stabbed, and I felt it.
I also had dreams when Satan screamed into my ear calling me strait to hell. Of course these are dreams.
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