being nicer on here

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binocular
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:32 pm

Reductor wrote:For many Theravadins, anatta is the teaching that sets this school apart from all the rest, so of course those that fail to respect it will be ridden hard.
That could be a reason.

But my thinking goes more along the lines of understanding the practical implications of one's stance on anatta, esp. if this understanding is that anatta means that there is no self, ultimately.
It can get really bizarre when someone argues that there is no self, but then gets really personally upset over people who question the idea that there is no self, and then personally criticizes those people (along with calling them names) ...
:shock:

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yawares
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by yawares » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:36 pm

Dear Members,

Put A Little Love In Your Heart :heart: : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHbRvywasJ0

Don't Be Mad At Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImB7Vavc8Fc

:heart: yawares/tidathep :heart:

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manas
Posts: 2461
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: being nicer on here

Post by manas » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:36 am

hi/all/bear/with/me/i/need/a/new/keyboard/space/bar/broken...

i/recall/recently/reading/or/hearing/something/about/this:

some/respond/best/to/gentleness
some/respond/best/to/firmness
some/respond/best/to/a/mixture/of/gentleness/and/firmness

i/dont/believe/the/buddha/was/hard/on/every/single/student
neither/should/we/expect/that/everyone/ought/to/have/a/thick/enough/skin/to/
deal/with/harsh/words/right/from/the/start

we/ought/to/be/sensitive/to/the/differing/natures/of/different/individuals/
and/train/them/accordingly/imho
if/we/treat/everyone/the/same/way/there/is/a/risk/we/will/lose/thinner/skinned/individuals
who/if/we/had/exercised/more/care/with/initially/(comma)/might/have/persevered
and/not/gone/away/due/to/hurt/feelings

those/thinner/skinned/newbies/(comma)/as/they/grow/in/the/dhamma/(comma)
will/eventually/become/tougher/also
but/initially/some/gentleness/is/appropriate/with/them/imho

metta
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Sarnath
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Location: California

Re: being nicer on here

Post by Sarnath » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:32 am

Namaste

As a new member, I notice everything as an impression.

Manas use of the KEYBOARD is Praiseworthy!

Also, I see the love living in the post of the female member just previous to Manas.

This example of both gives a "newbie" such as me comfort to continue seeking.

In your service ....
Caste System is Not Karma, it is Man Made

binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:10 am

manas wrote:i/recall/recently/reading/or/hearing/something/about/this:

some/respond/best/to/gentleness
some/respond/best/to/firmness
some/respond/best/to/a/mixture/of/gentleness/and/firmness
There's also the fact that some people are simply deeply attached to their particular didactic model.
For example, some people believe that the only way to instruct others is by speaking harshly to them, or by yelling at them, or by even beating them. They either cannot imagine another way of instructing others, or they believe that no other way can be effective; or they just get a boost out of treating others harshly.

if/we/treat/everyone/the/same/way/there/is/a/risk/we/will/lose/thinner/skinned/individuals
who/if/we/had/exercised/more/care/with/initially/(comma)/might/have/persevered
and/not/gone/away/due/to/hurt/feelings
Well, "thin skin" and "hurt feelings" are sometimes just manifestations of pride, and lack of faith.
I think that people who are really interested will stick around, even if this means enduring some harsh treatment.
And as for those who aren't really interested - perhaps it's better that they go away.

Reductor
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Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: being nicer on here

Post by Reductor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:24 am

binocular wrote: Well, "thin skin" and "hurt feelings" are sometimes just manifestations of pride, and lack of faith.
I think that people who are really interested will stick around, even if this means enduring some harsh treatment.
And as for those who aren't really interested - perhaps it's better that they go away.
:goodpost:

I think too many people think they want to know something about Buddhism, or about Theravada, and so seek out a forum first when really they should check out a book from the library, or read some articles. Then they could ask better informed and more relevant questions when they do come here, and avoid a smack down by those of us lacking the delicate touch.

That is, they should have enough interest to make a start on their own. I doubt then that they'd be so easily turned away from Theravada by a bunch of strangers on Dhammawheel, although they might go somewhere else that suits them better.

SamKR
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by SamKR » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:34 am

Being nicer is good; setting an example is good though it may not always be easy (especially online). These days people search online before getting any book. It's better that whoever comes here to DhammaWheel see people talking nicely -- not to show that we Buddhists are so nice, but simply not to scare them off -- so that they may try to learn deep deep teachings of the Buddha for their own good. I agree with you alan..., and your post is definitely not stupid but very relevant. The Buddha's great teachings are astoundingly accurate, and we do not need to sound rude to tell that to someone else.

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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: being nicer on here

Post by manas » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:44 am

binocular wrote: Well, "thin skin" and "hurt feelings" are sometimes just manifestations of pride, and lack of faith.
sometimes
but/then/again/we/are/dealing/with/uninstructed/people
of/course/they/will/have/pride
and/knowing/nothing/as/yet/of/dhamma/they/cant/be/expected
to/have/any/faith/as/yet
binocular wrote:I think that people who are really interested will stick around, even if this means enduring some harsh treatment.
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that

any/other/religious/site/to/my/knowledge
would/make/a/point/of/and/even/go/out/of/their/way
to/make/totally/new/people/feel/valued/and/safe
even/if/they/ask/questions/or/make/statements
that/seem/silly/to/us
even/if/out/of/ignorance
they/initially/breached/etiquette/that/is/well/known/to/us
but/totally/unknown/to/them
since/they/have/only/just/encountered/buddhism/and/theravada
possibly/in/the/last/five/minutes/before/joining

(edit)/im/not/suggesting/that/we/are/not/welcoming/in/our/manner
im/referring/only/to/those/instances/where/we/could/have/done/better/perhaps
but/on/the/whole/of/course/we/are
well/behaved/most/of/the/time :smile:

but/i/think/we/ought/to/restrain/our/own/pride/sometimes
hold/our/tongue/unless/our/motivation/is/purely/one/of/goodwill
and/be/more/patient/with/newcomers
whose/first/experience/of/dialogue/with/buddhists
could/well/be/in/this/site
binocular wrote:And as for those who aren't really interested - perhaps it's better that they go away.
sounds/reasonable/enough
although/it/would/still/be/a/pity/imo/if/they/felt/driven/away/by/harsh/words

anyway/i/guess/all/of/us/here
have/our/own/style
when/it/comes/to/sharing
the/buddha/dhamma
with/others

metta
Last edited by manas on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Dinsdale
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Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: being nicer on here

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:02 am

SamKR wrote:Being nicer is good; setting an example is good though it may not always be easy (especially online).
Good point here about setting an example. It is important.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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tiltbillings
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:07 am

manas wrote:
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that
If you have a complaint about how some one is being treated here, use the "report" function and/or leave a PM with a mod or admin. Both these actions get quick and appropriate responses. Your characterization here of this forum is not quite accurate, but simply become the change you want to see, which could start in this very thread.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: being nicer on here

Post by manas » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:
manas wrote:
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that
If you have a complaint about how some one is being treated here, use the "report" function and/or leave a PM with a mod or admin. Both these actions get quick and appropriate responses. Your characterization here of this forum is not quite accurate, but simply become the change you want to see, which could start in this very thread.
i/realised/that/i/might/have/given/that/impression
and/actually/just/edited/it/for/clarification
i/was/not/characterising/the/entire/forum
my/apologies/if/it/came/across/like/that
the/trouble/is
im/interested/in/this/topic
but/am/finding/typing/difficult
anyway/this/topic/is/very/specific
it/deals/with/where/we/could/improve
what/is/already/a/fantastic/site
from/which/i/have/learned/much

i/think/in/retrospect
trying/to/post/with/a/malfunctioning/keyboard
was/a/mistake
because/im/being/misunderstood
its/hard/to/write/like/this

:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:44 am

manas wrote:sometimes
but/then/again/we/are/dealing/with/uninstructed/people
of/course/they/will/have/pride
and/knowing/nothing/as/yet/of/dhamma/they/cant/be/expected
to/have/any/faith/as/yet
I'm not disputing what you're saying.
But here's the crux:

How wholesome is it that someone who themselves is not fully convinced of the Buddha's teachings nor is thoroughly educated and attained in them (which refers to many people who consider themselves "Buddhists" or "aspiring Buddhists"),
encourages others to be convinced of the Buddha's teachings and to practice accordingly?

And secondly, there is the danger of unilaterally setting oneself up as another's teacher, and even as the one and only means that another person may have to reach enlightenment. How wholesome is that?

I'm not against niceness; I do think though that there is a real danger of developing a kind of codependent or otherwise unhealthy relationship with others, be they newcomers or oldheads.

I don't think it is wholesome to consider oneself responsible for another person's faith in Buddhism, at least not as long as one isn't significantly advanced yet.

binocular wrote:I think that people who are really interested will stick around, even if this means enduring some harsh treatment.
maybe
but/i/still/dont/see/why/they/should/be/made/to/endure/that
Nobody suggested that they should be made to endure harsh treatment.

It's just that if one sets out on a path of effort - whether it is worldly effort or spiritual effort - one is likely to encounter obstacles and setbacks. It probably won't be plain sailing. In that sense, one ought to get ready for some trouble.
That's just how life is, for most people.

Again, I'm not condoning or justifying harsh treatment. It's just that one can operate out of only that much faith and attainment as one actually has, not out of as much as one wishes one would have, or out of as much as one deludes oneself into believing one has. One needs to be realistic about these things, in regards to oneself and in regards to others, whether one is a newbie or an oldhead.
Last edited by binocular on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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BlackBird
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by BlackBird » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:44 am

It's not actually that hard to not be an asshole, especially if you meditate as many here claim to do.

If there's one place on the internet that should eschew harsh speech, it should be a Buddhist forum. The sentiment expressed here by many seems to be something along the lines of: "Toughen up, it's the way of the world." - Sure, we should be used to putting up with this from those who do not practice the Dhamma, but those who practice Dhamma should strive to be nice people, not to be caustic or snappy to those who ask questions they've heard a millions times, or to those who express a view point that one disagrees with. There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. I've seen it happen to more than one place, and I'd hate to see it happen here. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

binocular
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Re: being nicer on here

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:50 am

manas wrote:i/think/in/retrospect
trying/to/post/with/a/malfunctioning/keyboard
was/a/mistake
because/im/being/misunderstood
its/hard/to/write/like/this
You might be able to copy-paste a space.
On a PC, you can move with the cursors to an space in the post you're replying to, mark it with the mouse or Shift+cursor key, click Ctrl+c, and then click Ctrl+v wherever you need a space.

Dinsdale
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Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: being nicer on here

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:06 pm

BlackBird wrote:It's not actually that hard to not be an asshole, especially if you meditate as many here claim to do.

If there's one place on the internet that should eschew harsh speech, it should be a Buddhist forum. The sentiment expressed here by many seems to be something along the lines of: "Toughen up, it's the way of the world." - Sure, we should be used to putting up with this from those who do not practice the Dhamma, but those who practice Dhamma should strive to be nice people, not to be caustic or snappy to those who ask questions they've heard a millions times, or to those who express a view point that one disagrees with. There's nothing more detrimental to the overall health and longevity of a discussion forum than an unwelcoming atmosphere, caused by a bunch of people that see it as their duty to shoot down and destroy any view that doesn't accord with their own. I've seen it happen to more than one place, and I'd hate to see it happen here. We should endeavour to cultivate harmony here on the board. It's one thing to wish for someone's happiness, it's another thing altogether to take action to try and make it so.

metta
Jack
:goodpost:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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