Discovering Buddhavamsa

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sarnath
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Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Sarnath » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:03 am

Namaste

Today I have heard of the Buddhavamsa, which is a section of the Kshudraka Nikaya of the Sutra Pitaka.

This must be a unique section, whose author is not the same as the larger scripture but who was simply documenting what was heard, and which describes 29 Buddhas of which Siddhartha was the 28th after and Who is before the future Buddha still to come.

What is the Theravada position on the authority of the Buddhavamsa?

When was it taken down to written format from being heard to script?

Where can one access or obtain a copy of the Buddhavamsa? I searched this website which retuned no results.

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robertk
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by robertk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:57 am

The Buddhavamsa is simply part of the Tipitaka like any other book.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:03 am

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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cooran
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by cooran » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:06 am

Hello all,

Buddhavamsa - The Great Chronicle of the Buddha - translation by Mingun Sayadaw
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/gotama/gcob.htm

with metta
Chris
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Sarnath
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Sarnath » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:20 am

Namaste Cooran (and others) and thank you for this link.

I am hoping to find the full version, I am thinking someone has the source to the full version hopefully available from the internet.

So now my question again is, if indeed it appears this revelation tells of the 28 Buddhas, then my question is what is the Theravada position on this?

We know that one can aspire and even become a Buddha. But that is not my question. It is not a question of enlightenment through self-realization or the teachings or the example of the Buddha that I am asking.

I have read that there are stages to Buddhahood. We have:
Shravak as a seeker or layman
Bodhisattva or one developing or becoming a Buddha
Pratyeka Buddha Who has developed to be a Buddha or an incarnation of Buddha or previous Buddha.
Samyak Buddha which is instant and an experience as the Light of Buddha realization that strikes for a moment like lightening

But this doctrine that may be exposed in the Buddhavamsa (once I find an edition I can read) appears to also include the doctrine of incarnations or appearances of One already known, Who has returned, Who was and now is or will be.

I have not read the Buddhavamsa, I will study it. But is this considered a Theravada scripture? Did the Buddha Whom I know as the famous Siddhartha the Buddha in fact was a previous Buddha? Or will He come again in the future? Or is this not a Theravada doctrine, but rather Mahayana or other such as Lightening Bolt Buddhism?

What is the position?

In your service ….
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Nyana
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Nyana » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Sarnath wrote:I have not read the Buddhavamsa, I will study it. But is this considered a Theravada scripture?
It's included in the Pāli Tipiṭaka, so yes.
Sarnath wrote:Did the Buddha Whom I know as the famous Siddhartha the Buddha in fact was a previous Buddha?
No, he wasn't a previous buddha.
Sarnath wrote:Or will He come again in the future?
No, he won't come again. The next buddha will be Metteyya.

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Sarnath
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Sarnath » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:44 pm

Namaste

This is very welcome information. Some Hindus believe Siddhartha is an Avatar of Vishnu. However, the 28 Buddhas in the Buddhavamsa appear according to what is intructed in your interesing reply, that each such Buddha was a self-realization of each Individual, and that one Buddha was not the reincarnation of a previous Buddha, and that the Future Buddha is not Siddhartha nor a reincarnation of a previous Buddha.

I now also understand that this doctrine or History of the 28 Buddhas is Theravada Doctrine.

It is very, very interesting regarding the Future Buddha. I hope this will happen soon.

Thanks for thr link regarding the Future Buddha, this will be heartfully read this evening.
Pardon for not referencing your member name, The device I am using does not display special characters.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:03 pm

Please see also Venerable Ledi Sayādaw's A Manual of the Excellent Man (Uttamapurisa Dipani)
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mogg
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by mogg » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:54 am

I would personally dismiss the Buddhavamsa as hagiographical. The first four nikayas are the word of the Buddha, and in DN 14 the Buddha mentions that there have been only 6 Buddhas in the past 91 aeons (and he lists them, Lord Buddhas': Vipassi, Sikhi, Vessabhu, Kakusandha, Konagamana, Kassapa). Furthermore, in MN 81, the Buddha teaches Ananda that in a past life he was a Brahmin by the name Jotipala...Jotipala has to be dragged 'kicking and screaming' by his friend Ghatikara to see the Buddha Kassapa. Prior to the meeting, Jotipala is irreverential to the Buddha Kassapa (putting paid to all this Bodhisattva nonsense we get in the later add on suttas).

The early four nikayas have the 'smell of truth' to them. Some of the later additions do not. Proceed with caution!
Last edited by mogg on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Ben » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 am

mogg wrote:The early four nikayas have the 'smell of truth' to them. The later additions do not. Proceed with caution!
According to you.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:11 am

mogg wrote:Proceed with caution!
Always good advice, whether reading the suttas, posting on the Internet, or just crossing the road.

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Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mogg
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by mogg » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:30 am

Ben wrote:
mogg wrote:The early four nikayas have the 'smell of truth' to them. The later additions do not. Proceed with caution!
According to you.
...and all of the monastics that I have met whom I place faith in (in several different countries). Naturally people will follow their own inclination, but if you are going to accept these later suttas, you must reconcile them with the earlier suttas (where there is a general consensus of authenticity).

mogg
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by mogg » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:39 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
mogg wrote:Proceed with caution!
Always good advice, whether reading the suttas posting on the Internet. or just crossing the road.

The Four Great References
Good advice Venerable.

I'm more than open to further education and having my mind changed. If you believe that I am incorrect in my views of the contradictions inherent in the Khuddaka suttas, I kindly submit myself to your tutelage. Please post some arguments or links to papers that address the inconsistencies that I have mentioned.

With metta

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Nyorai
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by Nyorai » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:45 am

“To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana.”
― Gautama Buddha
ImageTo become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana.
If you light a lamp for somebody, it will also brighten your path. He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self.Image

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tiltbillings
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Re: Discovering Buddhavamsa

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:49 am

Nyorai wrote:“To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana.”
― Gautama Buddha
No such text as this exists in the Pali suttas. This sort of thing is found in the very much later tathagatgarbha sutras of the Mahayana.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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