Urgently seeking jhana teachers in Burma and SE Asia

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mr.SeanStewart
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Urgently seeking jhana teachers in Burma and SE Asia

Post by Mr.SeanStewart »

Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking
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Ben
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Ben »

As a matter of interest...why?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Mr.SeanStewart
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Mr.SeanStewart »

Kindly i rather not start that discussion of the reason why at this point, as i know there are
different views and understanding on this.

I just like to know if there is such a school that develops jahana through natural breath (not visualization)
and then proceeds to teach Vipassina.

Any help would be great.
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mikenz66
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Sean,

A number of teachers specifically develop Jhana, such as Pa Auk Sayadaw and his students, Ajahn Maha Bua's students, Ajahn Brahm, and so on. Did you have a particular location in mind?

:anjali:
Mike
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manas
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by manas »

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking
Hi Sean,

I support you in your quest, although I don't have any knowledge of meditation centres in Asia, sorry. (I've not as yet even been to Asia.) I just wanted to mention that, there is this notion in much of the Buddhist world that jhana and vipassana (is that what you were referring to when you mentioned 'mindfulness'?) are two different things, when actually they are more like two sides of a single coin, and are quite interconnected:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html

Lastly, I might gently remind you that there's no jhana without mindfulness, I mean, jhana is a state in which there is greatly enhanced and strengthened mindfulness as I understand it, so maybe that is why some could misunderstand your original question.

I wish you well in your quest!

Metta :anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Ben
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Ben »

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Kindly i rather not start that discussion of the reason why at this point, as i know there are
different views and understanding on this.

I just like to know if there is such a school that develops jahana through natural breath (not visualization)
and then proceeds to teach Vipassina.

Any help would be great.
No worries, Sean.
When I was in Myanmar several years ago, a bhikkhu within my tradition went for a samatha retreat at a monastery in Southern Myanmar. Unfortunately I don't know the name of the monastery, whether the retreats are available to lay people or how to contact the bhikkhu who attended the retreat.
I hope some of our ordained members can chip in and provide you with some contacts.
All the best,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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James the Giant
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by James the Giant »

Mr.SeanStewart wrote: - Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?
Pa-Auk Forest Monastery cultivate a solid base of jhana before moving on to vipassana, they are well known for that approach.
http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org

I have met a few people who have stayed there, and it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.
Burma is a little difficult to organise visas for... you need a letter from the abbot... and it takes 6 - 8 weeks... see the website for more details.
There are about 700 people there, perhaps 100 of them foreigners.
Perhaps they have some branch monasteries or centres in Thailand that would be easier to access.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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mikenz66
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by mikenz66 »

There is a Pa Auk centre in Malaysia, so that might be a good choice, since visas would not be an issue.

:anjali:
Mike
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Mr.SeanStewart
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Mr.SeanStewart »

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Sean,

A number of teachers specifically develop Jhana, such as Pa Auk Sayadaw and his students, Ajahn Maha Bua's students, Ajahn Brahm, and so on. Did you have a particular location in mind?

:anjali:
Mike

Thanks Mike! So far from my research here is the list i have

1: Achaan onechai, who stays near udon Thani.
2: Thanissaro bhikkhu
3: Ajahn Chah & Achaan mahaboowa ( student achaan anan )
4. http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/

And now you mention 2 more

1 Ajahn Maha Bua's students
2 Ajahn Brahm



im currently in bangkok thailand waiting for their new year to finish so i can apply for Meditation visa.

i prefer Burma for their meditation visa, or Nepal also is an option but more expensive for visa and have to go through india.

Currently have a sponsorship letter from chanmyay.org

thank you for all your help
Last edited by Mr.SeanStewart on Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mr.SeanStewart
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Mr.SeanStewart »

manas wrote:
Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking
Hi Sean,

I support you in your quest, although I don't have any knowledge of meditation centres in Asia, sorry. (I've not as yet even been to Asia.) I just wanted to mention that, there is this notion in much of the Buddhist world that jhana and vipassana (is that what you were referring to when you mentioned 'mindfulness'?) are two different things, when actually they are more like two sides of a single coin, and are quite interconnected:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html

Lastly, I might gently remind you that there's no jhana without mindfulness, I mean, jhana is a state in which there is greatly enhanced and strengthened mindfulness as I understand it, so maybe that is why some could misunderstand your original question.

I wish you well in your quest!

Metta :anjali:
Thanks alot for your help and the link,
from my very limited experience (goenka vipassina 3 yrs, 5 retreats) i have learned that
the more concentrated my mind becomes through ananpana the better my practice gets
and with the 10 courese, right when i feel im reaching a new level of concentration
they start vipassina, and i never had a chance to seee where anapana alone will lead to
after 20-30-40 days.

So its part curiosity of what can happen, and part my own inner
feeling that this is a more skill ful path to me and my logic, that as a building needs to have a
solid foundation, so do i need a solid foundation of concentration which a) gives me motivation
to find peace/joy free from form (5 sesnes) and b) use this tool like a Microscope to practice
mindfullness/seeing-clearly/vipassina

from my research i see mixed reviews on this and every one seem to have their own valid reasons
and hoenstly i dont have the ability to read all the sutras to come up with my own conclusions
so the best i can do is to do what seems logical to me and follow the path of buddha.

he reached his jhana before discovering vipassina and reached the final goal, so me too would rather
reach jhana and then work towards vipassina and purfiy my mind, wost case senario i have increased
my concnetration which then improves all other areas of my life, and then i can move on to other practices

some may say this can develop attachment to Jhana state and become addicted, but i think just like all my other
addictions (drugs, sex, ect ect) this too should be seen through and transcended through personal experience.

Thanks again for listing, still love to hear others feed back on this. Cheers
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Mr.SeanStewart
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Mr.SeanStewart »

James the Giant wrote:
Mr.SeanStewart wrote: - Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?
Pa-Auk Forest Monastery cultivate a solid base of jhana before moving on to vipassana, they are well known for that approach.
http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org

I have met a few people who have stayed there, and it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.
Burma is a little difficult to organise visas for... you need a letter from the abbot... and it takes 6 - 8 weeks... see the website for more details.
There are about 700 people there, perhaps 100 of them foreigners.
Perhaps they have some branch monasteries or centres in Thailand that would be easier to access.
Thanks James,

Im going to try calling them as i can not wait 6 weeks i only have few days in bangkok
700 students is alot of students, wonder how intimate the teacher/student relationships
can get with that many people.
daverupa
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by daverupa »

Vipassana and samatha are developed in tandem; should one or another achieve preeminence, the imbalance is to be redressed, but not chosen - the problem will be with personal (i.e. habitual) emphases. I think it's a disservice to suggest that one or another is to be developed first on purpose, even in reference to such differing temperaments.

Satipatthana properly develops both, as two hands wash each other even when you pay attention to only one hand; anapanasati is a sequel which brings the awakening factors to fulfillment by development. Find the proper method in your own case by diligent satisampajanna - do not neglect this daily practice in order to favor formal seated efforts, which are appropriately seen as efforts to compose jhana on the basis of satipatthana - again, with vipassana and samatha in tandem.

Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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mikenz66
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by mikenz66 »

daverupa wrote: Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.
I don't think anyone putting them in contrast. Nevertheless, many reputable teachers, the Theravada tradition, and many suttas (all of those "gradual training" suttas, for example:"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. ...") place development of jhana before the development of the crucial insights.

In any case, such questioning is irrelevant to the OP, who has clearly explained that he wishes to train with reputable Theravada teachers who emphasise development of jhana.

Sean mentions Chanmyay Sayadaw. He might be aware of the statement from him that I quoted more fully here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p212808
Chanmyay Sayadaw wrote:The first type of Vipassana meditation or Insight Meditation is practised by those who have ample time to devote to their meditation. They have to spend maybe three or four months on Samatha meditation. And when they are satisfied with their attainment of jhana concentration they proceed with Vipassana meditation.
It may be that he can find the instruction he seeks at that centre.

:anjali:
Mike
daverupa
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by daverupa »

mikenz66 wrote:
daverupa wrote: Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.
I don't think anyone putting them in contrast... development of jhana before the development of the crucial insights.
Sure; but those crucial insights follow vipassana-samatha. The thread title sets up an opposition which doesn't exist: samatha-vipassana are paired qualities whose development altogether precedes jhana.

Go ahead and find teachers who are doing jhana, but the OP basically asks to learn them prior to satipatthana, which is altogether backwards, expressed wish or not.

:anjali:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Ben
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Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Post by Ben »

I think the OP has asked for contacts regarding the teaching of samatha.
Anything other than the provision of places and names is off-topic.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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