I just saw this on the Web. I feel there is an element of truth in it. Isn't consciousness just a product of senses functioning rather than a real entity on its own?Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer
This quote on consciousness
This quote on consciousness
Re: This quote on consciousness
The comparison seems off, since there is no consciousness "out there" in a mystical broadcast studio, sending signals to the radio-brain.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
- Prasadachitta
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Re: This quote on consciousness
Maybe more like
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for sound inside a speaker.
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for sound inside a speaker.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
Re: This quote on consciousness
Not bad. Still assumes that there is some source outside the system.Prasadachitta wrote:Maybe more like
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for sound inside a speaker.
How about:
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like selling ice cubes to eskimos
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
Re: This quote on consciousness
I heard a monk make a similar analogy in a lecture. I dig it.Cassandra wrote:I just saw this on the Web. I feel there is an element of truth in it. Isn't consciousness just a product of senses functioning rather than a real entity on its own?Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: This quote on consciousness
There is a reason that in psychology they refer to consciousness as "the hard problem".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_probl ... sciousness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_probl ... sciousness
Several questions about consciousness must be resolved in order to acquire a full understanding of it. These questions include, but are not limited to, whether being conscious could be wholly described in physical terms, such as the aggregation of neural processes in the brain. It follows that if consciousness cannot be explained exclusively by physical events in the brain, it must transcend the capabilities of physical systems and require an explanation of nonphysical means. For philosophers who assert that consciousness is nonphysical in nature, there remains a question about what outside of physical theory is required to explain consciousness.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Re: This quote on consciousness
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: This quote on consciousness
And isn't the thinker just another thought?pegembara wrote:Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
Re: This quote on consciousness
there is pre-linguistic (merely representative) Intentionality (that isn't imposed on a particular language of whatever sort).
it's the sort of primative basis of meaning (beliefs desires etc) we derive from, and impose on e.g. words.
it's the sort of primative basis of meaning (beliefs desires etc) we derive from, and impose on e.g. words.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
Re: This quote on consciousness
we'll find a neurological correlate for consciousness soon enough. just wait.Looking for consciousness in the brain is like selling ice cubes to eskimos
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
Re: This quote on consciousness
every advanced, higher level feature in nature is localized in some lower level system. i don't see why CS should be any different.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: This quote on consciousness
So what is "beyond" the thinker/thoughts?polarbuddha101 wrote:And isn't the thinker just another thought?pegembara wrote:Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
Re: This quote on consciousness
Yea I agree. But there is no need to go to that extent of detail. Just focus only on the radio, without extending the analogy to the broadcast studio. Within the capacity of the radio, consciousness is just a product of the radio's electronic functions and hardware gadgets.daverupa wrote:The comparison seems off, since there is no consciousness "out there" in a mystical broadcast studio, sending signals to the radio-brain.
Re: This quote on consciousness
I think we need a working definition of consciousness here. As in, what exactly is being referred to by "consciousness" ?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: This quote on consciousness
Having done extensive research into this topic on other threads I found basically two lines of results:kirk5a wrote:I think we need a working definition of consciousness here. As in, what exactly is being referred to by "consciousness" ?
1. What Buddha taught.
SN 25.3 PTS: S iii 226 CDB i 1005
Viññana Sutta: Consciousness
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004–2013
At Savatthi. "Monks, eye-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable. Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable.
"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.
"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.
"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
see also: The Six Sextets: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.htmlSN 12.44 PTS: S ii 73 CDB i 581
Loka Sutta: The World
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1998–2013
Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One addressed the monks: "I will teach you the origination of the world & the ending of the world. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
"As you say, lord," the monks responded to the Blessed One.
The Blessed One said: "And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.
"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises ear-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises nose-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises tongue-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises body-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the intellect & mental qualities there arises intellect-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.
"And what is the ending of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. Now, from the remainderless cessation & fading away of that very craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering. This is the ending of the world.
"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises ear-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises nose-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises tongue-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises body-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the intellect & mental qualities there arises intellect-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. Now, from the remainderless cessation & fading away of that very craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering. This is the ending of the world."
2. What modern science has discovered. ( See several excellent discussions on TED Talks )
http://www.ted.com/talks/tags/consciousness
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.