Magick and Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
danieLion
Posts: 1947
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by danieLion »

mikenz66 wrote:Hi BB,
Beautiful Breath wrote:This is ridiculous and REALLY funny ! ! !

Are there any Moderators watching this at all? Why wasn't this thread kicked into touch and others reminded of the original post whilst offering those who want to talk about Magick (on a Buddhist forum) the opportunity to open another thread.

If we can talk about Crowley can I open a thread about the New Kadampa Tradition....no double standards in here......are there?

As it stands the initial post about practice has been sucessfully hijacked an is now an argument about Magick!

:rules:

Oh well...
Yes, I have no idea what the relevance of most of the posts on this thread have to Theravada meditation, which is why I moved it to Open Dhamma.

Since the OP did invite comment about non-Theravada techniques, it's hard to draw the line here...

:anjali:
Mike
I have no interest in the Kadampa cult or the Yellow Hat cult. I prefer Theravada, as did Crowley, who was trained by the Theravadin master, Bhikkhu Ananda Metteyya (a.k.a. Charles Henry Allan Bennett, a.k.a. Allan Bennett, a.ka. Frater Petros Xristos Magister [8=3]).

Mike, at least you admit you have a knwoledge deficit. To fix it, start here:

Charles Henry Allan Bennett

Then move on to these:

The Bhikkhu and the Magus: Exploring Allan Bennett’s Influence on Aleister Crowley

Chapters 27-33 of this.

The Writings of Alan Bennet starting with the essay, "The Training of the Mind."

To be fair:
Break with Crowley

Back in England in 1908, Bennett attempted to spread the study of Buddhism on his native soil. He published "The Training of the Mind" in The Equinox. Crowley tried to rekindle their friendship, but to no avail. By this time Crowley had rejected Buddhism in favor of his own reworking of the Hermetic Tradition, which he called Thelema; Bennett would have nothing to do with it. He remarked, "No Buddhist would consider it worthwhile to pass from the crystalline clearness of his own religion to this involved obscurity" (Sutin 193). It is hard to say what really caused the break between them. Perhaps their visions of the divine really had grown too far apart. It would not be the only dear friend that Crowley would lose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_He ... an_Bennett
Which is also to say, while I'm not a Crowley apologist--and be true to the OP--it is absurd to say that Thelemic Magick and Buddhism are mutualy exclusive.
perkele
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by perkele »

I don't practice masturbation anymore.
The reason being that it kind of ruins concentration.
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convivium
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by convivium »

it is absurd to say that Thelemic Magick and Buddhism are mutualy exclusive.
thelema magick of the sexual sort that i pointed out and sexual tantric practices found in vajrayana buddhism (the red hat drugkpas might be an unfortunate exception) are mutually exclusive in their relation to the orgasm (see the dalai lama quote above). that's a very important point as far as kundalini based yoga systems go (see the source passages in the link i provided for clarification). non-kundalini systems (e.g. vipassana, samatha etc) are not related to kundalini, and so have no place in the issue i am raising.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
Coyote
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by Coyote »

Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el008.html

"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26
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convivium
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by convivium »

Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el008.html

"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ation.html
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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mikenz66
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote: Which is also to say, while I'm not a Crowley apologist--and be true to the OP--it is absurd to say that Thelemic Magick and Buddhism are mutualy exclusive.
Thanks for the background, it's interesting to see how various people fitted together.

There are many things that are not mutually exclusive to Theravada and obviously many people or ideas that have some connection. Such connections don't necessarily mean that they have much relevance to the Theravada areas of this Forum, which is why this thread is now in Open Dhamma (which is probably where such a topic should have been started in the first place).

:anjali:
Mike
Coyote
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by Coyote »

I'm not using the kalama sutta in the way that Ven. Thanissaro is rightly arguing against. I didn't even offer my own comments. Just thought that it might help the OP in understanding the reasons why we might choose one practice over another. Which was her original question.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26
danieLion
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by danieLion »

perkele wrote:I don't practice masturbation anymore.
The reason being that it kind of ruins concentration.
:rofl:
What, exaclty about it, requires "practice"?
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PadmaPhala
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by PadmaPhala »

daverupa wrote:It would be impossible for me, now, to draw down the moon or do a Tarot spread or create a circle or any of that silliness because none of it is based on right view and all of it aggrandizes the self in one way or another, as I see it all now in retrospect.

Even when events occurred which seemed momentous, it's all with contact as condition...

:meditate:
making sigils is useful for understanding the mindstream.
danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by danieLion »

convivium wrote:
it is absurd to say that Thelemic Magick and Buddhism are mutualy exclusive.
thelema magick of the sexual sort that i pointed out and sexual tantric practices found in vajrayana buddhism (the red hat drugkpas might be an unfortunate exception) are mutually exclusive in their relation to the orgasm (see the dalai lama quote above). that's a very important point as far as kundalini based yoga systems go (see the source passages in the link i provided for clarification). non-kundalini systems (e.g. vipassana, samatha etc) are not related to kundalini, and so have no place in the issue i am raising.
:zzz:
danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by danieLion »

Vincenzi wrote:
daverupa wrote:It would be impossible for me, now, to draw down the moon or do a Tarot spread or create a circle or any of that silliness because none of it is based on right view and all of it aggrandizes the self in one way or another, as I see it all now in retrospect.

Even when events occurred which seemed momentous, it's all with contact as condition...

:meditate:
making sigils is useful for understanding the mindstream.
Indeed. Here's some symbol's I've seen around here.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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PadmaPhala
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by PadmaPhala »

sorry to the OP =P

i helped to make the first one you posted =)

but by sigil i meant something more like this:
Image
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convivium
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by convivium »

:zzz:
"This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness: There is the case where Nanda during the day, sitting & pacing back & forth, cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the first watch of the night,[1] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the second watch of the night,[2] reclining on his right side, he takes up the lion's posture, one foot placed on top of the other, mindful, alert, with his mind set on getting up.[3] During the last watch of the night,[4] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Beautiful Breath
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by Beautiful Breath »

Harry Potter :rofl:
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Beautiful Breath
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Post by Beautiful Breath »

danieLion wrote:
Beautiful Breath wrote:...yeah I invited experiences from other 'Buddhist' traditions - that's quite clear from my initial question. It wasn't meant to include ALL other religions....good grief...!!!
That's your fault for not specifying it in your OP, and it was not at all clear from initial question. We're not mind readers! And you did not indicate in any way that it was to be restricted to Buddhist traditions--and you're still being ambigous by putting apostrophe quotes around the term 'Buddhist."

Magick, especially from Crowley's perspective, utilizes many Buddhist methods, especially Satipatthana.

If it really bugs you I'm sure the moderators would make it a separate topic. But don't pretend like you didn't open the door, because that was uour doing, not ours.
Oooer! Someone needs to read more carfully and sit longer! :rofl:
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