Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Mr Man
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Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by Mr Man »

mikenz66 wrote:
danieLion wrote: The link in the middle is dead though.
Yes, that's the link I'm talking about, which is also the one on the Wikipedia page...
If anyone is interested in the interview (in the dead link), it can be got through wayback machine

http://web.archive.org/web/201204280150 ... dahas.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Goob
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by Goob »

danieLion wrote:
richard_rca wrote:And yet is it assumed that this name & form relationship is fundamentally the same for everyone?
Are you asking me? I guess it's assumed by some. Not by me though. Plus, I'm not sure what you mean by "fundamentally."
What I meant was that even though you say that words can never really accurately describe anything and that an experience is a thoroughly subjective experience it seems that you would believe that the name & form interactions with the rest of, say, the factors of dependent co-arising would fundamentally be the same for everyone and thus an underlying 'truth'.
Is that a fair assessment?
Goob
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by Goob »

On a side note: I found it quite fascinating to hear that Ven. Ñāṇananda (again an exception in this matter) is outspoken about a Western import to Sri Lanka with regard to the interpretation of Nibbana/Nirvana. He explains what is wrong with the notion of perceiving Nirvana as “a flame unbound” – a concept/mistranslation which leads towards an existentialist interpretation of the Dhamma and a notion which, when confronted with it 30 years ago in Sri Lanka itself, resulted in the creation of his masterpiece of contemporary Buddhist insight literature: The 33 Nibbana Sermons.
Does anyone know if the 'western import' and nibbana as 'flame unbound' talked about here refers to Ajahn Thanissaro's and his 'Mind Like Fire Unbound'? Would be interesting to know.
danieLion
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by danieLion »

richard_rca wrote:
danieLion wrote:
richard_rca wrote:And yet is it assumed that this name & form relationship is fundamentally the same for everyone?
Are you asking me? I guess it's assumed by some. Not by me though. Plus, I'm not sure what you mean by "fundamentally."
What I meant was that even though you say that words can never really accurately describe anything and that an experience is a thoroughly subjective experience it seems that you would believe that the name & form interactions with the rest of, say, the factors of dependent co-arising would fundamentally be the same for everyone and thus an underlying 'truth'.
Is that a fair assessment?
No. I did not say words can never "really" (whatever that means) accurately describe anything and I did not say experience is thoroughly subjective. We (particpants of any discourse) might agree that in this time and place this word or these words mean roughly the same thing for us but we cannot, as Habermas has argued, know this intersubjectively through mere communicatve acts (barring reading each other's minds which I believe is possible but very rare). The way you've re-prhased my words ontologizes my perspective, something I, following the Buddha et al, have no interest in.
danieLion
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by danieLion »

richard_rca wrote:
On a side note: I found it quite fascinating to hear that Ven. Ñāṇananda (again an exception in this matter) is outspoken about a Western import to Sri Lanka with regard to the interpretation of Nibbana/Nirvana. He explains what is wrong with the notion of perceiving Nirvana as “a flame unbound” – a concept/mistranslation which leads towards an existentialist interpretation of the Dhamma and a notion which, when confronted with it 30 years ago in Sri Lanka itself, resulted in the creation of his masterpiece of contemporary Buddhist insight literature: The 33 Nibbana Sermons.
Does anyone know if the 'western import' and nibbana as 'flame unbound' talked about here refers to Ajahn Thanissaro's and his 'Mind Like Fire Unbound'? Would be interesting to know.
I dont' know, but that's what I thought when I saw it. But this just convolutes matters and devolves to schism perpetuation. Some people think Thanissaro's theory is heretical or at least innacurate. Again, there's not a Bureau Of Anti-Heresy we can ask for an official declaration. So we'll just have to keep thinking for ourselves, which is what the Buddha would want.
Goob
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Teachers teaching Jhana as whole-body awareness?

Post by Goob »

Okay. Thanks for clarifying.
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