Ajahn Brahm for sale?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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manas
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by manas » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:15 pm

Sorry, on second thoughts, I thought it best to extinguish this post...this topic is a bit of a minefield, I will leave it to others more learned than I to comment

metta
Last edited by manas on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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marc108
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by marc108 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:26 pm

Are we all Vinaya experts? Has Ajahn Brahm broken any rules? Didn't Ajahm Brahm do the first make English translation of the Vinaya? My personal opinion is that he's likely done this because te nunnery is hurting for funds, and its not like hes taking the money or himself or his own monastery. Ajahn Brahm works tirelessly and gives of himself with complete generosity... He's done more to further the Dhamma than any of us could ever hope to. Not to mention he is a senior monk of 40 years. We may not personally like the 'auction' but to criticize him or cast sweeping judgements when none of us know the circumstances is IMO, unwise. 'Nit-picking' at its worst.
Last edited by marc108 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:27 pm

marc108 wrote:Are we all Vinaya experts? Has Ajahn Brahm broken any rules? Didn't Ajahm Brahm do the first make English translation of the Vinaya? My personal opinion is that he's likely done this because te nunnery is hurtingl for funds. Ajahn Brahm works tirelessly and gives of himself with complete generosity... He's done more to further the Dhamma than any of us could ever hope to. Not to mention he is a senior monk of 40 years. We may not personally like the 'auction' but to criticize him or cast sweeping judgements when none of us know the circumstances is IMO, unwise. 'Nit-picking' at its worst.
Indeed.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Gena1480
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Gena1480 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:31 pm

who am i to judge someone else actions
i'm not the owner of his actions
i'm the owner of my actions.

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Dan74
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Dan74 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:36 pm

I thought this was quite common practice anyway, in that monks would spend time with the largest benefactors.
_/|\_

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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Mr Man » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:38 pm

marc108 wrote:Are we all Vinaya experts? Has Ajahn Brahm broken any rules? Didn't Ajahm Brahm do the first make English translation of the Vinaya? My personal opinion is that he's likely done this because te nunnery is hurting for funds, and its not like hes taking the money or himself or his own monastery. Ajahn Brahm works tirelessly and gives of himself with complete generosity... He's done more to further the Dhamma than any of us could ever hope to.
In my opinion that is all totally irrelevant and sounds awfully like righteous indignation. Maybe he has made a bad decision or been badly advised? Who knows?

santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:41 pm

Of course we don't doubt Ven. Brahm's good intention. But shouldn't it be more appropriate to let the lay staff handle this matter? If he does this, it'll open up some awkward situations, for example some poor folks who's deserved to see the venerable more but they aren't able to because they lost the "bidding war" to their neighbor who has a lot more money. The rich folks could easily win the "auction" and thus win the venerable's time thru the size of their pocket, not their virtue. Worst of, they might not even need the venerable there at their home for they might only care about a good story of having a world renowned teacher actually staying at their home! It wouldn't seem fair to the poorer folks..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:04 pm

santa100 wrote:Of course we don't doubt Ven. Brahm's good intention. But shouldn't it be more appropriate to let the lay staff handle this matter? If he does this, it'll open up some awkward situations, for example some poor folks who's deserved to see the venerable more but they aren't able to because they lost the "bidding war" to their neighbor who has a lot more money. The rich folks could easily win the "auction" and thus win the venerable's time thru the size of their pocket, not their virtue. Worst of, they might not even need the venerable there at their home for they might only care about a good story of having a world renowned teacher actually staying at their home! It wouldn't seem fair to the poorer folks..
What if Ven B goes to England to lead a month long retreat? All those poor people in Oz are left in the lurch for over a month.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:07 pm

At least they know they couldn't see him not because they lost the bidding war to some rich folks..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:09 pm

santa100 wrote:At least they know they couldn't see him not because they lost the bidding war to some rich folks..
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:11 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.
Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

santa100
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:12 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.
It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:15 pm

Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.
Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:20 pm

santa100 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.
It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..
What are you really objecting to here?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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