I finally paid off my debts...

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by manas »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
manas wrote:Q: All this talk about ordaining has me thinking about my own debts also. I have a question. In Australia, we are not required to pay back our 'student loan debt' until we earn over a certain amount of income a year, I think it is around 40 000 a year. The problem is that, I don't earn that much, and if things continue as they have for years, I might never earn that much. (I'm qualified in music only, which isn't exactly conducive to wealth.) So I wonder, one could argue that since they don't expect any repayments unless I earn above a certain amount, then not earning that amount, am I regarded as indebted, or not? (in a way that would prevent me from ordaining in a few years, when my children have grown up)?
I can't imagine that would count as debt, unless of course you plan on making more than $40,000 a year as a monk :)
Furthermore, even if I suddenly had the money in a lump sum, it would benefit far more beings in a real way, to give the money to an orphanage, or to Oxfam, or maybe to the monastery itself (to build a few huts), rather than to our federal Government who tend to look after big corporations and the rich most of all (via tax breaks, 'upper class welfare', legal tax loopholes, etc) in preference to the poor in our community. The financial system as a whole, seems to be designed by the super-rich, for the ultimate benefit of the super-rich. As Pink Floyd sang years ago:
Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay
And your O.K.

Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands
And make a stash

New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off my stack

Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that
Do goody good bullshit

I'm in the hi-fidelity
First class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

manas wrote:Furthermore, even if I suddenly had the money in a lump sum, it would benefit far more beings in a real way, to give the money to an orphanage, or to Oxfam, or maybe to the monastery itself (to build a few huts), rather than to our federal Government who tend to look after big corporations and the rich most of all (via tax breaks, 'upper class welfare', legal tax loopholes, etc) in preference to the poor in our community. The financial system as a whole, seems to be designed by the super-rich, for the ultimate benefit of the super-rich.
Trust me, you don't get to complain until you've lived in America :)
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Śūnyatā
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by Śūnyatā »

Pardon the uneducated question here: Why must one pay off one's debts before choosing to ordain?

With gratitude :
Sun
[color=#0000FF]Live in joy, In love, Even among those who hate. Live in joy, In health, Even among the afflicted. Live in joy, In peace, Even among the troubled. Look within. Be still.[/color] — Dhammapada

[color=#0000FF]Being a human being is not an end in itself. It’s only a transition. It can never be a perfect state in itself. It’s merely a convention.[/color] — Luang Por Sumedho

[color=#0000FF]Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing.[/color] — Euripides
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retrofuturist
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Śūnyatā wrote:Pardon the uneducated question here: Why must one pay off one's debts before choosing to ordain?
It is a requirement of the Vinaya (monastic discipline).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Śūnyatā
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by Śūnyatā »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Śūnyatā wrote:Pardon the uneducated question here: Why must one pay off one's debts before choosing to ordain?
It is a requirement of the Vinaya (monastic discipline).

Metta,
Retro. :)
Ah, okay. Thanks, Retro.

With gratitude :
Sun
[color=#0000FF]Live in joy, In love, Even among those who hate. Live in joy, In health, Even among the afflicted. Live in joy, In peace, Even among the troubled. Look within. Be still.[/color] — Dhammapada

[color=#0000FF]Being a human being is not an end in itself. It’s only a transition. It can never be a perfect state in itself. It’s merely a convention.[/color] — Luang Por Sumedho

[color=#0000FF]Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing.[/color] — Euripides
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James the Giant
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by James the Giant »

I have a Catholic Monk friend, and he said the church pays off all the debts of a new monk.
That's how wealthy the Catholic church is! Mind you, not many people become monks these days in the Catholic order.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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manas
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by manas »

James the Giant wrote:I have a Catholic Monk friend, and he said the church pays off all the debts of a new monk.
That's how wealthy the Catholic church is! Mind you, not many people become monks these days in the Catholic order.
I can see a potential problem with that system. What if a new monk gets all his debts paid, then changes his mind and leaves the monastery, never to be seen or heard from again? I'm no admirer of the Catholic Church, but I can imagine that sort of thing might have happened before. But I guess they can afford that risk, yes?
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
plwk
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by plwk »

I have a Catholic Monk friend, and he said the church pays off all the debts of a new monk.
That's how wealthy the Catholic church is! Mind you, not many people become monks these days in the Catholic order.
Before popping the champagne bottle on this, your friend should have told you that this is not a norm and although it does occur but not with all religious parishes as it depends on various factors like various levels of approvals & conditions and many would insist that one is debt free prior to undertaking the religious life.
This is such a sample and this is what a common religious parish would face in real life...imagine if they had to pay off individual debts on top of the dire state of accounts...
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kizma
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by kizma »

Congratulations to both of you!

This is very inspiring, as I am also working towards paying my debts with the goal of ordaining.
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Beautiful Breath
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Post by Beautiful Breath »

Have a thought for those of us who - for reasons rendering - are in a position that dictates we will never be able to pay off our debts. Means ordaining into a Theravadin Tradition impossible.

BB...
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