as it says on the tin, "Is critical thinking active vipassana?
it seams to me that it is, but I would like to have your thoughts on this.
I would say it is because it is the application of right effort inwardly to oneself (as described in the video at-least). A looking for the flaws in ones own thoughts, and the philosophies of another (at-least to see if they aim toward the correct place).
Edit -
By Active I am refering to reflective practices within day-to-day activities, reflecting on an action and its motivations/intentions (were they skillful...), or studying a topic such as Kamma (is this understaning coherent...).
PLEASE Watch the video, as the definition for this thread is there.
Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
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Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
Last edited by Cittasanto on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
I just now logged onto these forums to ask almost the exact same question.Cittasanto wrote:as it says on the tin, "Is critical thinking active vipassana?
it seams to me that it is, but I would like to have your thoughts on this.
I would say it is because it is the application of right effort inwardly to oneself (as described in the video at-least). A looking for the flaws in ones own thoughts, and the philosophies of another (at-least to see if they aim toward the correct place).
Edit: To add a little more substance to my post, it's interesting to compare critical thinking with Sayadaw U Tejaniya's method of asking questions about your thoughts during meditation.
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
This a great question and one I've been contemplating for a while now. If you take the definition of crtitical thinking in this video and compare it to the way Rev. Thanissaro, e.g., narrates the Buddha's "method of discovery," then I think you have good parallels to yoniso manisikara (and dhamma vicaya), especially as he describes the Buddha's process in the book Skill In Questions and in essays like " One Tool Among Many: The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice".
And if we look at Albert Elllis' work, e.g., whose Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) parallels crtical thinking, the particular aspects of the tilakkhana start popping out. For instance, anicca and dukkha are "covered" in his writings like the chapter in A Guide To Rational Living titled, "Accepting and Coping with the Grim Facts of Life." Anatta, for example, is "covered" in his writings like the chapter in The Road to Tolerance: The Philosophy of REBT titled, "REBT Diminishes Much of the Human Ego." To be fair, there's a chapter in that same book on Zen Buddhism & REBT in which he makes the common mistake of interpreting the Buddha as teaching that life is suffering rather than his actual teaching that here is suffering life. He also critizes "desireleness" there, but I don't think was aware of the distintction in Buddhism betweeen skillfull and unskillful desire. He also criticized Henepola Gunaratana's The Path of Serenity & Insight, but I forget where and what they were specifically. Furthermore, his book, Anger: How to Live With and Without It has helped me tremendously in the Rooting-Out-Hate department. And when you read transcriptions of Thanissaro's talks in his Meditations series like "The Story-telling Mind," "The Path of Mistakes," "Not What You Are, What You Do," "Little Things," "Your Inner Mob," "Inner Voice Lessons," etc..., you have to strongly suspect the Reverend knows a thing or two about REBT and CBT and has incorportated them into his teachings.
And if we look at Albert Elllis' work, e.g., whose Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) parallels crtical thinking, the particular aspects of the tilakkhana start popping out. For instance, anicca and dukkha are "covered" in his writings like the chapter in A Guide To Rational Living titled, "Accepting and Coping with the Grim Facts of Life." Anatta, for example, is "covered" in his writings like the chapter in The Road to Tolerance: The Philosophy of REBT titled, "REBT Diminishes Much of the Human Ego." To be fair, there's a chapter in that same book on Zen Buddhism & REBT in which he makes the common mistake of interpreting the Buddha as teaching that life is suffering rather than his actual teaching that here is suffering life. He also critizes "desireleness" there, but I don't think was aware of the distintction in Buddhism betweeen skillfull and unskillful desire. He also criticized Henepola Gunaratana's The Path of Serenity & Insight, but I forget where and what they were specifically. Furthermore, his book, Anger: How to Live With and Without It has helped me tremendously in the Rooting-Out-Hate department. And when you read transcriptions of Thanissaro's talks in his Meditations series like "The Story-telling Mind," "The Path of Mistakes," "Not What You Are, What You Do," "Little Things," "Your Inner Mob," "Inner Voice Lessons," etc..., you have to strongly suspect the Reverend knows a thing or two about REBT and CBT and has incorportated them into his teachings.
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
For sure. Do you have any of his particular writings or talks in mind?twelph wrote:...it's interesting to compare critical thinking with Sayadaw U Tejaniya's method of asking questions about your thoughts during meditation.
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
Honestly it's throughout all of his teachings. He is constantly offering up questions for meditators to phrase in their mind. Though I don't think he is as worried about coming to a definitive conclusion like critical thinking might. From his little book on right attitude:danieLion wrote:For sure. Do you have any of his particular writings or talks in mind?twelph wrote:...it's interesting to compare critical thinking with Sayadaw U Tejaniya's method of asking questions about your thoughts during meditation.
http://sayadawutejaniya.org/wp-content/ ... points.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;6. Why do you focus so hard when you meditate?
Do you want something?
Do you want something to happen?
Do you want something to stop happening?
If the point of critical thinking is to analyze a thought in order to question and ascertain certain qualities about it, then what the Sayadaw is teaching seems to fall under critical thinking. I would like to hear someone else's take on it though.
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
Crtical thinking does not pursue definition or conlcusion. It is iterative, something it shares in common with epistemology (science--from a Latin word for "knowledge"--is just an epistemology of iteration).twelph wrote:Though I don't think he is as worried about coming to a definitive conclusion like critical thinking might.
Well, according to the video's conclusion, critical thinking is the art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improve it. However, It's orientation depends on it's telos, or goal. When combined with Buddhism, the goal becomes quite clear, as you've rightly noticed from Reverend Tejaniya's teachings.twelph wrote:If the point of critical thinking is to analyze a thought in order to question and ascertain certain qualities about it, then what the Sayadaw is teaching seems to fall under critical thinking. I would like to hear someone else's take on it though.
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
Hi Cittasanto,
That looks good.
A couple of thoughts - it looks similar to mindfulness-based cognitive therapy.
Also, you might be interested in the section in Ven Analayo's seminal work "Satipatthana", on "Investigation of Dhammas" which can be interpreted as self-reflexive analysis.
kind regards,
Ben
That looks good.
A couple of thoughts - it looks similar to mindfulness-based cognitive therapy.
Also, you might be interested in the section in Ven Analayo's seminal work "Satipatthana", on "Investigation of Dhammas" which can be interpreted as self-reflexive analysis.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
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- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
What is "Active Vipassana"?
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
As a side note, meditation has the benefit of stilling the mind to the point where evaluating one's thinking can be directly linked to different sensations in the body. When critical thinking talks about trying to determine your own bias, using the body as a frame of reference to notice when you feel strongly about something will help you from falling into these traps.danieLion wrote:Well, according to the video's conclusion, critical thinking is the art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improve it. However, It's orientation depends on it's telos, or goal. When combined with Buddhism, the goal becomes quite clear, as you've rightly noticed from Reverend Tejaniya's teachings.
I believe that several teachers have mentioned that in the west there is a stigmatism associated with being aware of your body. Taking this into consideration, it makes sense that critical thinking (with the current iteration being developed mostly from western philosophy) would lack this portion of the Dhamma.
It starts to get really interesting if you view Plato's "The One" and "The Good" as a form of enlightenment like some scholars have chosen to do.
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Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
not formal so more active.ground wrote:What is "Active Vipassana"?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- Cittasanto
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
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Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
I will have a proper read of the posts tonight and reply to any.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
I don't think of Vipassana as a type of meditation (although the word does apply to a meditative movement) but I think that it is pretty clear that critical thinking is of the utmost importance if we want to develop vipassana. As Ben already pointed out, critical thinking can apply to the investigation of dhammas factor of awakening. Another good use of critical thinking with the aim of improving one's thinking comes from the Dvedhavitakka Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). And as pointed out critical thinking should play a significant role in cultivating right effort as well as appropriate attention.
Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
If the analysis doesn't result in stilling, it's papañca.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
No it isn't. critical thinking is about thought based solutions to thought created problems. Vipassana is transformative. It creates a shift. Critical thinking is of the world.
Would be interested to hear from robertk and also from those with a strong "classical" sutta understanding would have to say?
Would be interested to hear from robertk and also from those with a strong "classical" sutta understanding would have to say?
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Re: Is Critical Thinking Active Vipassana?
A sutta response:Mr Man wrote:No it isn't. critical thinking is about thought based solutions to thought created problems. Vipassana is transformative. It creates a shift. Critical thinking is of the world.
This is not a matter of conceptual, critical thinking, and it is something that can be cultivated."When for you there will be only the seen in the seen, only the heard in the
heard, only the sensed in the sensed, only the cognized in the cognized,
then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms
of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither
here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of suffering."
-- Ud I 10
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723