I think motivation is conditioned by various factors, such as right view and wrong view?
Yes and the factors are not always easy to see.
The "rather an odd collective belief to hold" was "We believe that there have been many great meditators that used jhana as a basis for insight." it sounded almost like doctrine. That there is "strong groupthink among sujin followers here" would seem fair but I don't think that the points you have made are conditioned primarily by wrong view. I don't think that way actually. The phrase from Ajahn Chah has come to mind a few times though "true but not right, right but not true" .robertk wrote: You have mentioned how the views put forward on this thread are ""rather an odd collective belief to hold" and how there "strong groupthink among sujin follwers here" so presumably you believe the points I made are conditioned primarily by wrong view, or if you prefer conventional terms, illogical or ridiculous (or simply odd).
I can't do that, I wouldn't have an interest in doing that and if I could what difference would it make?robertk wrote: For me I was happily putting them forward but if you can show that they are in opposition to the Theravada Tipitika and ancient Commentaries that would be great, please do.
Yes but is that your perspective?robertk wrote: For your point about views being "no more personal or impersonal than anything else", I believe it is Theravada axiom that all things are anatta, impersonal, not self...