Nones

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Post Reply
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23043
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Nones

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:00 am

http://www.pewforum.org/unaffiliated/no ... -rise.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Nones

Post by cooran » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:46 am

Very interesting Tilt! I wish someone would do as detailed a study on the views of Australians.

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
zavk
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Nones

Post by zavk » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:22 am

I've come across some commentaries/review of these findings.

‘Nones’ ≠ Nonreligious
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... gers/6648/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does Record Number of Religious “Nones” Mean Decline of Religiosity?
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... ligiosity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Great Religious Realignment
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... alignment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the questions raised seem interesting, though I can't say I really grasp the implications since I do not have firsthand experience of the American context, which, as far as I can tell, is quite different from any lived experience I've had.

Hope the above links are of interest.
With metta,
zavk

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Nones

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm

However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day. In addition, most religiously unaffiliated Americans think that churches and other religious institutions benefit society by strengthening community bonds and aiding the poor.
Gah, this stuff worries me.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Nones

Post by polarbear101 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:42 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day. In addition, most religiously unaffiliated Americans think that churches and other religious institutions benefit society by strengthening community bonds and aiding the poor.
Gah, this stuff worries me.
Why? How so?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Nones

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:13 pm

polarbuddha101 wrote:Why? How so?
I hate to do this, but rather than restate myself, here's a little essay I wrote regarding what I dislike so much about the concept of "spiritual, not religious": http://thisbodyisacorpse.wordpress.com/ ... religious/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Nones

Post by polarbear101 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:26 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
polarbuddha101 wrote:Why? How so?
I hate to do this, but rather than restate myself, here's a little essay I wrote regarding what I dislike so much about the concept of "spiritual, not religious": http://thisbodyisacorpse.wordpress.com/ ... religious/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh, now I get it. I read that post of yours a while ago actually and I agree with your sentiments. But I actually even dislike the term spiritual in general as well because it immediately brings to mind doctrines of self, soul, spirit as well as wishy washy contemporary relativist approaches to religious teachings. I don't want to live a spiritual life, but a dhammic one, a life attuned to reality, natural law, the Basic Pattern, the way things really are, full of wisdom as opposed to strange esoteric ideas of True Self like those found in yoga. Anyway, that's my own rant on the word but thanks for clarifying.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Nones

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:30 pm

polarbuddha101 wrote:Oh, now I get it. I read that post of yours a while ago actually and I agree with your sentiments. But I actually even dislike the term spiritual in general as well because it immediately brings to mind doctrines of self, soul, spirit as well as wishy washy contemporary relativist approaches to religious teachings. I don't want to live a spiritual life, but a dhammic one, a life attuned to reality, natural law, the Basic Pattern, the way things really are, full of wisdom as opposed to strange esoteric ideas of True Self like those found in yoga. Anyway, that's my own rant on the word but thanks for clarifying.

:namaste:
I totally agree; the Dhamma is about getting rid of the self, and the vague "spiritual" practices indulged in by the new generation on "nones" are by and large going in the exact opposite direction of self-affirmation and expansion.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Nones

Post by daverupa » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:06 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:the Dhamma is about getting rid of the self
Well, this might amount to annihilationism, so take care...

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

alan
Posts: 2814
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Nones

Post by alan » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:03 am

Better to have "nones" than religious fanatics. Overall, I'd say this is a positive change.

User avatar
Benjamin
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:41 am
Location: The United States

Re: Nones

Post by Benjamin » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:57 pm

On a somewhat related note, there's an essay by Sam Harris (the famous Atheist) on "Killing the Buddha", i.e ridding Buddhism of its 'religious' aspects. The only reason I'm even bothering to mention it is due to the fact that he's been meditating for a long time, and I've always found him to be the least hot headed of the Atheist "celebrities".

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text ... he-buddha/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


:focus:


In regards to the supposed rising atheism of the country, I can say that as a college student I don't doubt its accuracy at least among my generation. The students here (Kent State) that go to church weekly seem to do it out of habit, and keep their business to themselves. In other words, I see much less evangelizing. However, the vast majority I've met seem wholly uninterested in anything "religious".
"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Nones

Post by polarbear101 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Benjamin wrote:On a somewhat related note, there's an essay by Sam Harris (the famous Atheist) on "Killing the Buddha", i.e ridding Buddhism of its 'religious' aspects. The only reason I'm even bothering to mention it is due to the fact that he's been meditating for a long time, and I've always found him to be the least hot headed of the Atheist "celebrities".

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text ... he-buddha/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I actually started a topic here on that article a while ago when I was more atheistic and less buddhist. Just thought I'd post it in case you wanted to read it.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, I found that when I was raised as a christian I noticed more christians and when I became an atheist I stopped noticing religious people for the most part and found myself living in an atheistic world.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 1164
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Nones

Post by m0rl0ck » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:45 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
polarbuddha101 wrote:Why? How so?
I hate to do this, but rather than restate myself, here's a little essay I wrote regarding what I dislike so much about the concept of "spiritual, not religious": http://thisbodyisacorpse.wordpress.com/ ... religious/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With those kinds of things you really have to know how the question is phrased and who is asking. For instance are you:

1. Catholic
2. Protestant
3. Spiritual but not religious.

:)

This chart for instance speaks volumes about the assumptions of those doing the survey and their aims:
Image
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests